Az Non-Res Drawing Odds

[dryval]

If you have any interest in hunting any of the even marginal quality units in Arizona; especially for deer you may want to note the following. While this has been a topic on various forums before, I now think we need to have a somewhat organized effort to see if we can change the present system to at least allow some chance for peopel who do not hold maximum bonus points.

The issue at hand is that non-res applicants have a majority of the maximum bonus points. Az sends 20% of it's tags to the max point holders but only 10% of the tags go to non-res. Since non-res hold more than 50% of the maximum bonus points, the non-res quota will always be filled with max point holders. That means if you have interest in a Kiabab or Az Strip tag and you have less than 8 or 9 points it likely won't happen in the next 30 years.

I have the link to their description of the drawing process and the e-mail I sent to their department. I would encourage you ,if you agree, to also begin sending comments to the Az F&G dept to see if this can't be changed.


Read the following on the Az drawing processes.

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/highlights/highlights_0606.html

In response to this I sent the following e-mail to the department:
**********************************************************
From reading your explanation of the drawing process it appears to me that any unit with even modest demand to hunt will turn the bonus points into preference points for non-residents.

Given that 20% of the tags are allotted to max point holders and only 10% of tags go to non-residents and non-residents hold higher points than the average resident, the 10% quota will always be filled in the 20% max point draw.

There has been quite a flurry on the internet over this issue.

Is there a way to have the commission consider allowing no more that 20% of the 10% non-res allocation (2% total)to go in the max point draw and still allow the remaining 80% of the 10% non-res allocation (8% total) to be set aside for the random draw?

I will gladly continue to fork over my $130 dollars for a chance to draw. However, given the number of points I presently have if the system continues as is I will not draw in my lifetime as the number of non-res with more points than me is astronomical.

I also believe that if my assessment is correct many non-residents will stop applying due to the futility of ever drawing once this issue is universally understood. However, they will continue to provide that funding if that 8% random chance still exists.

 

[AZ402]

The 20% pass rule is definitely a bad deal for low bonus point Non-Residents. That is a pretty interesting solution you wrote to the G&F. When they respond I'll be curious what they have to say. I believe Garth Carter brought up a very similar proposal to the G&F this past Saturday at the Commision meeting.

 

[AZMIKE111]

Sounds like a good plan you made for the non-residents. Your plan would give all the non-residents hope at drawing while still taking 10% of the tags. I could see the other side where max point non-res holders would feel that the random draw for the 80% of the 10% of the tags would be taking there tags away by less point holders. Overall I like your plan better though, it will still draw the majority of the max non-res holders, and it will also give some non-residents with any amount of points a reason to apply and give them some hope when the draw is complete...

 

[Big Fin]

Dryval:

I agree with what you have stated here. I think it is very clear that if no changes are made, guys with max points will be the only NR's hunting.

Even though I have max points for deer and more antelope points than any other NR I know, I think the system is going to have a long-term impact on younger hunters who will be funding AZG&F.

My son is 16. He has the maximum points any NR can have at his age, but he is still so far down the list that under the current scenario, he may be too old to hunt before he reaches the top of the pile.

I understand what AZ was trying to do, but it may create more long-term problems than what it provides in short-term solutions.

I was lucky to draw a premium elk tag in 2005. If AZ made those tags once in a life-time for NR's, I would not complain. I had my chance and now someone else should get to enjoy it (but if Stan calls to tell me I won the governors tag, I am not going to refuse).

I will email AZG&F with a comment similar to yours, even though the current system improves my short-term odds for deer and antelope, I don't like what it does for younger hunters.

If AZG&F keeps the current system, they are going to need some "wheelchair accessible" units, as that is the physical state that will be reality for some very old tag recipients once they have waited to be to the top of the points pile.

Enough rambling. Thanks for some good input.

Merry Christmas to all!

Big Fin