Axle to Axle Advantages?

[ThunderNocked]

Good evening - I just learned something I'm a little frustrated I wasn't told years ago OR more likely I was told and the information didn't stick.
I bought a Mathews VXR28 few years back and have really enjoyed the bow though I haven't shot it as much as I should have the last 18 months.

I was just talking with a man who has shot a lot longer than me and he showed me his 35" AtA bow and we were talking about why he decided to go with a bow that long. I didn't realize that longer bows are more forgiving and minimize your errors. I bought the 28" because I thought it would be easier to pack being a little lighter and sticking up less (but the arrows still stick up alot).
Now I have shot some good groups out to 60 and 70 yards with my VXR but now I'm considering buying a new 33"-34" bow to take advantage of the forgiveness of a longer bow. Wondering what the overall thoughts from everyone are - is it worth the upgrade or not?
Currently shooting a 28.5" Draw Length - Last time I checked drawing 69.9#s.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[95tigerbill]

Another consideration is the string angle at full draw. I shoot a longer draw length 30.5 and when at full draw I like to be able to have the tip of my nose on the string in my anchor point. With short axle to axle bows this sometimes isn’t possible based on the string angle. This is now dependent as some are now designed where the cam at full draw rolls over past the limbs and acts like a longer ata bow. Having said all that if you shoot your bow well then there isn’t necessarily a reason to change anything. Bows are very much a personal fit item.

 

[brownbear932008]

There is a solid reason most tournament shooters shoot longer ATA bows. I'm far from a pro but I never really dipped into the short bow craze because of this. I shoot like crap so I need all the forgiveness I can muster. Now in a hunting situation, I see the advantage of making drawing easier in say a stalking position on the ground ect. with short ATA. I've always shot bows in that 32-35 inch length.

 

[BackofBeyond]

Like most things, it all depends. With some longer ATA bows come a shorter brace height, which makes it just as unforgiving as a short ATA bow.

 

[ccc23454]

I would of agreed 10-15 years ago, modern bows are ridiculous easy to shot and stable. To me practice and confidence way more important than any spec sheet. If you shot it good who cares, only measurement that matters is success!

 

[JMG]

I have been shooting archery for quite a while and I am no expert. When I was getting into archery hunting, I did my fair share of research. My understanding is that longer bows (axel to axel) and longer brace height (distance from riser to bow string) will produce a more forgiving bow. So, a combination of the two will be a more forgiving bow, regarding the mechanics of the bow while releasing an arrow. I also, believe the main reason for the shorter bows is because they appeal to the folks who sit tree stands and don't want any tree branches interfering during pulling the bow and releasing an arrow while in the tree stand.

 

[LuketheDog]

If I recall correctly, a big reason axle lengths were reduced was to make handling bows easier while in tree stands and ground blinds where space is at a premium, not for better mechanics or shootability. I'm not an archery expert by and means, but I will tell you I shoot my 35" Elite waaaay better than I shot my short axle bows, and that I won't ever go back to a short ATA bow.

 

[rjthehunter]

A couple of inches doesn't equate to much in weight. But a couple inches is definitely noticeable when shooting.

I'm shooting a 30 3/4" ATA right now. I like the bow and shoot it well. For me, it seems like there's a sweet spot between 30-33. I should go try a 35 and see how I shoot that.

 

[Bob-WY]

Yet another out of control craze. When the "shorter is better" craze started the line was around 40 inches. Now it's gone so short it's nuts

In 99% of hunters anything 36ish down to 31is is the same. The little bit of forgiveness won't be noticeable by most

Bow fit, comfort in your hand and balance are way more important

 

[Khunter]

I am the same as @95tigerbill in relatively long draw length of 30.5 and preference to have string touch tip of nose.

Just upgraded from 2010 34” AtA Hoyt alphamax to a 2022 33 AtA Hoyt Ventum Pro with 6 3/8 brace height. All I know is it shoots great for me and I have never considered shooting a short AtA bow and almost never sit in a tree stand.

Had also heard AtA and brace height can yield forgiveness and just blindly have believed it based on the expert who told me.

I have provided zero help on OP topic, LOL.

 

[Joe Hulburt]

I shoot a 33” ata Hoyt Carbon Spyder ZT Turbo with 6” brace height and I would not want to go any shorter ata and I will look for something with a longer brace height when I’m in the market. It’s one thing to develop consistency in ideal conditions but the one shot that really matters is rarely in those conditions and the adrenaline is flowing. That’s when I really want forgiveness and it seems well worth compromising on speed especially considering how efficient even moderate performance bows are. I feel my bow is too performance heavy and not as forgiving or fun to shoot as it could be.

 

[Nick87]

I shoot a 33” ata Hoyt Carbon Spyder ZT Turbo with 6” brace height and I would not want to go any shorter ata and I will look for something with a longer brace height when I’m in the market. It’s one thing to develop consistency in ideal conditions but the one shot that really matters is rarely in those conditions and the adrenaline is flowing. That’s when I really want forgiveness and it seems well worth compromising on speed especially considering how efficient even moderate performance bows are. I feel my bow is too performance heavy and not as forgiving or fun to shoot as it could be.

I'll take forgiving and accurate over speed anyday.

 

[ThunderNocked]

thank you to everyone responding.
A little background - shot bows from 4-17 then picked them a friend needed an extra body to make a IBEP Hunter Ed Class happen so borrowed his bow. In 2016 found I was moving to AK Interior and so got a cheap bow - harvested a moose with that and have shot on and off.
I'm no expert and currently I've never been in a tree stand or a ground blind. My only reason for the bow I picked at the time was climbing through alders with the bow on my pack and a tiny bit of weight savings - I was nervous hiking in 15 miles for 10 days as it was my first trip ever of that magnitude.

I agree that I have shot this bow well out to 60 and 70 yards here in my yard at a target but want to add as few variables as possible in the field - if a longer bow would be more 'forgiving' of small inconsistencies then I think that would be good.

Archery Shop opens today - I may go just wander through and take a look.

 

[WIbiggame]

I shot the phase 4 in both 29" and 33". Ended up buying the 33", because the 29" felt like a cannon going off in my hand and was noticeably louder. I am a Midwestern tree stand hunter 90% of the time and have never thought damn wish my bow was shorter.

 

[rideold]

I've owned both. I am more accurate with my shorter bow than I was with the longer. I have a short draw length and I think that makes a difference.

 

[JDH]

Both of my bows have been 33" ATA so I can't offer advice. But as many have said above, I've always heard the longer ATA was more forgiving.

 

[sclancy27]

I've shot bows from 30" to 34" ATA. Supposedly, longer ATA bows are more forgiving. I'm above average height (6'1") and the bow I have shot the best is a 30" ATA bow.

To me, the most important thing for shooting is how the bow feels to you, specifically the grip/riser. For whatever reason, the 30" ATA bow is dead in my hands and the arrow just goes behind the pin.

Bow fit is extremely personal and boils down what works for you. Start with learning good techniques and shot execution. After that, if a bow shoots really good for you why would you care what someone else thought?

 

[ThunderNocked]

@sclancy27 valid point(s).
It wasn't what he thought - it was that I wasn't aware of the 'forgiveness' of a longer ATA bow. If that had been told to me when I bought my 28 I would have bought a 31 to give myself the greater chance for consistent accuracy while hunting.
Your point is right though - which I stand by with many other areas.

Thanks again everyone for pitching into the conversation.

 

[sclancy27]

@sclancy27 valid point(s).
It wasn't what he thought - it was that I wasn't aware of the 'forgiveness' of a longer ATA bow. If that had been told to me when I bought my 28 I would have bought a 31 to give myself the greater chance for consistent accuracy while hunting.
Your point is right though - which I stand by with many other areas.

Thanks again everyone for pitching into the conversation.

Mathematically, the idea of forgiveness must be tied to the MOI of an object, or in other words the torque needed to accelerate an object rotationally along an axis. A longer object has a higher MOI (generally) than a shorter object, thus requiring more torque at the point of rotation, which in archery is your hand. Now, MOI is also dependent on the distribution of mass within the object rotated, have alot of mass near the point of rotation and the object is easier to rotate than having that mass farther away from the point of rotation (this phenomena is seen in figure skating as the performer pulls arms and legs in close their rotation increases rapidly with no outside force vector). Finally, MOI doesn't address what the specific grip/riser configuration does for your ability to apply force (and thus rotational torque) to the object through the grip. From my perspective, having a grip/riser configuration that is conducive to very little applied rotational force ("dead in the hand" "no hand torque" whatever saying to want to use) is always going to be better than simply a slightly longer ATA. Now, if you look at professional shooters they are always shooting long ATA bows, but I suspect they have addressed the grip first before moving on to the bow ATA.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I went from shooting a 30 to a 35 ata and found it much easier to shoot for a variety of reason.