Atver,s, How'd you do in the belts?

[JoseCuervo]

Nice Buck Sage... If you got him legal thats whats counts.. I don`t see what your gun or your truck has anything to do with it? Congrats on your buck.

CJ,

The law is the MINIMUM acceptable behaviour society expects. If you had any personal ethics, you would not be worried if you were legal, as your personal ethics should be much higher than the law.


FareChase,

A Walmart rifle and a flatbed truck

That is pretty funny..... You would think he would have topped it with a $79 Tasco......

 

[BuzzH]

Hornseeker,

Funny you mention Greg Munther, I know him real well. Worked for him at Ninemile RD, but was friends with him long before that.

He really put the hurt on the roads while he was district ranger. We need more rangers like him. You'd be hard pressed to find a better friend to the average hunter than Greg.

Seems like you hang around with the right people...

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

It's a $29 simmons , look closely .

 

[cjcj]

Damn some of you guys sound like a bunch of Yuppies.....why does it matter what kind of gun and scope the guy shoots.. I probably shoot better with iron open sights than you uppity clowns do with your $1,200 scopes and your overpriced brownings... actualy i have both cheap and expensive guns/scopes... but i say your losing the argument when you rag on a guy for having a tasco.. i have one and it works great.. for the money....

 

[SageGhost]

you all need glasses!!!!!!

I only had scope mounts on, not a scope... by the way that is a leupold scope mount..
i currently do own a weaver grand slam.. i prefer to hunt open sighted...

 

[SageGhost]

hey cjcj

i bought a 50 $ bushnell 4x16 and it works just as good or better then my weaver grand slam... i definately agree with you..

 

[JoseCuervo]

i bought a 50 $ bushnell 4x16 and it works just as good or better then my weaver grand slam... i definately agree with you..

Another satisfied Wal-Mart customer...... LMAO

 

[SageGhost]

www.jgsales.com is where i got it at.... dont shop at walmart....i order online from a family owned firearms business in prescott arizona.......i never buy from a person who knows less about firamrs then i do. so that scratches out wally world...

 

[Nut]

Another thread hijacked....where is the debate again?

 

[SageGhost]

reply

oil erosion is one form of soil degradation along with soil compaction, low organic matter, loss of soil structure, poor internal drainage, salinisation, and soil acidity problems. These other forms of soil degradation, serious in themselves, usually contribute to accelerated soil erosion.

Soil erosion is a naturally occurring process on all land. The agents of soil erosion are water and wind, each contributing a significant amount of soil loss each year in Ontario.

Soil erosion may be a slow process that continues relatively unnoticed, or it may occur at an alarming rate causing serious loss of topsoil. The loss of soil from farmland may be reflected in reduced crop production potential, lower surface water quality and damaged drainage networks.

|
Erosion by Water

The rate and magnitude of soil erosion by water is controlled by the following factors:
Rainfall Intensity and Runoff

Both rainfall and runoff factors must be considered in assessing a water erosion problem. The impact of raindrops on the soil surface can break down soil aggregates and disperse the aggregate material. Lighter aggregate materials such as very fine sand, silt, clay and organic matter can be easily removed by the raindrop splash and runoff water; greater raindrop energy or runoff amounts might be required to move the larger sand and gravel particles.

Soil movement by rainfall (raindrop splash) is usually greatest and most noticeable during short-duration, high-intensity thunderstorms. Although the erosion caused by long-lasting and less-intense storms is not as spectacular or noticeable as that produced during thunderstorms, the amount of soil loss can be significant, especially when compounded over time. Runoff can occur whenever there is excess water on a slope that cannot be absorbed into the soil or trapped on the surface. The amount of runoff can be increased if infiltration is reduced due to soil compaction, crusting or freezing. Runoff from the agricultural land may be greatest during spring months when the soils are usually saturated, snow is melting and vegetative cover is minimal.
Soil Erodibility

Soil erodibility is an estimate of the ability of soils to resist erosion, based on the physical characteristics of each soil. Generally, soils with faster infiltration rates, higher levels of organic matter and improved soil structure have a greater resistance to erosion. Sand, sandy loam and loam textured soils tend to be less erodible than silt, very fine sand, and certain clay textured soils.

Tillage and cropping practices which lower soil organic matter levels, cause poor soil structure, and result of compacted contribute to increases in soil erodibility. Decreased infiltration and increased runoff can be a result of compacted subsurface soil layers. A decrease in infiltration can also be caused by a formation of a soil crust, which tends to "seal" the surface. On some sites, a soil crust might decrease the amount of soil loss from sheet or rain splash erosion, however, a corresponding increase in the amount of runoff water can contribute to greater rill erosion problems.

Past erosion has an effect on a soils erodibility for a number of reasons. Many exposed subsurface soils on eroded sites tend to be more erodible than the original soils were, because of their poorer structure and lower organic matter. The lower nutrient levels often associated with subsoils contribute to lower crop yields and generally poorer crop cover, which in turn provides less crop protection for the soil.
Slope Gradient and Length

Naturally, the steeper the slope of a field, the greater the amount of soil loss from erosion by water. Soil erosion by water also increases as the slope length increases due to the greater accumulation of runoff. Consolidation of small fields into larger ones often results in longer slope lengths with increased erosion potential, due to increased velocity of water which permits a greater degree of scouring (carrying capacity for sediment).


Vegetation

Soil erosion potential is increased if the soil has no or very little vegetative cover of plants and/or crop residues. Plant and residue cover protects the soil from raindrop impact and splash, tends to slow down the movement of surface runoff and allows excess surface water to infiltrate.

The erosion-reducing effectiveness of plant and/or residue covers depends on the type, extent and quantity of cover. Vegetation and residue combinations that completely cover the soil, and which intercept all falling raindrops at and close to the surface and the most efficient in controlling soil (e.g. forests, permanent grasses ). Partially incorporated residues and residual roots are also important as these provide channels that allow surface water to move into the soil.

The effectiveness of any crop, management system or protective cover also depends on how much protection is available at various periods during the year, relative to the amount of erosive rainfall that falls during these periods. In this respect, crops which provide a food, protective cover for a major portion of the year (for example, alfalfa or winter cover crops) can reduce erosion much more than can crops which leave the soil bare for a longer period of time (e.g. row crops) and particularly during periods of high erosive rainfall (spring and summer). However, most of the erosion on annual row crop land can be reduced by leaving a residue cover greater than 30% after harvest and over the winter months, or by inter-seeding a forage crop (e.g. red clover).

Soil erosion potential is affected by tillage operations, depending on the depth, direction and timing of plowing, the type of tillage equipment and the number of passes. Generally, the less the disturbance of vegetation or residue cover at or near the surface, the more effective the tillage practice in reducing erosion.


Conservation Measures

Certain conservation measures can reduce soil erosion by both water and wind. Tillage and cropping practices, as well a land management practices, directly affect the overall soil erosion problem and solutions on a farm. When crop rotations or changing tillage practices are not enough to control erosion on a field, a combination of approaches or more extreme measures might be necessary. For example, contour plowing, strip cropping, or terracing may be considered.


Effects

Sheet and Rill Erosion: Sheet erosion is soil movement from raindrop splash resulting in the breakdown of soil surface structure and surface runoff; it occurs rather uniformly over the slope and may go unnoticed until most of the productive topsoil has been lost. Rill erosion results when surface runoff concentrates forming small yet well-defined channels (Figure 1). These channels are called rills when they are small enough to not interfere with field machinery operations. The same eroded channels are know as gullies when they become a nuisance factor in normal tillage.


Gully Erosion : There are farms in Ontario that are losing large quantities of topsoil and subsoil each year due to fully erosion (Figure 2). Surface runoff, causing gull formation or the enlarging of existing gullies, is usually the result of improper outlet design for local surface and subsurface drainage systems. The soil instability of fully banks, usually associated with seepage of ground water, leads to sloughing and slumping (caving-in) of bank slopes. Such failures usually occur during spring months when the soil water conditions are most conducive to the problem.


Gully formations can be difficult to control if remedial measures are not designed and properly constructed. Control measures have to consider the cause of the increased flow of water across the landscape. This where the multitude of conservation measures come into play. Operations with farm machinery adjacent to gullies can be quite hazardous when cropping or attempting to reclaim lost land. (See OMAF Fact sheet- "Gully Erosion Control," Agdex 573)

Stream and Ditch Bank Erosion: Poor construction, or inadequate maintenance, of surface drainage systems, uncontrolled livestock access, and cropping too close to both stream banks has led to bank erosion problems.



The direct damages from bank erosion include:

1. The loss of productive farmland.
2. The undermining of structures such as bridges.
3. The washing out of lanes, roads and fence rows.

Poorly constructed tile outlets may also contribute to stream and ditch bank erosion. Some do not function properly because they have no rigid outlet pipe, or have outlet pipes that have been damaged by erosion, machinery, inadequate or no splash pads, and bank cave-ins.

On-Site Effects: The implications of soil erosion extend beyond the removal of valuable topsoil. Crop emergence, growth and yield are directly affected through the loss of natural nutrients and applied fertilizers with the soil. Seeds and plants can be disturbed or completely removed from the eroded site. Organic matter from the soil, residues and any applied manure, is relatively light-weight and can be readily transported off the field, particularly during spring thaw conditions. Pesticides may also be carried off the site with the eroded soil.

Soil quality, structure, stability and texture can be affected by the loss of soil. The breakdown of aggregates and the removal of smaller particles or entire layers of soil or organic matter can weaken the structure and even change the texture. Textural changes can in turn affect the water-holding capacity of the soil, making it more susceptible to extreme condition such a drought.

Off-Site Effects: Off-site impacts of soil erosion are not always as apparent as the on-site effects. Eroded soil, deposited down slope can inhibit or delay the emergence of seeds, bury small seedling and necessitate replanting in the affected areas. Sediment can be deposited on down slope properties and can contribute to road damage.

Sediment which reaches streams or watercourses can accelerate ban erosion, clog drainage ditches and stream channels, silt in reservoirs, cover fish spawning grounds and reduce downstream water quality. Pesticides and fertilizers, frequently transported along with the eroding soil can contaminate or pollute downstream water sources and recreational areas. Because of the potential seriousness of some of the off-site impacts, the control of "non-point" pollution from agricultural land has become of increasing importance in Ontario.


Erosion by Wind

The rate and magnitude of soil erosion by wind is controlled by the following factors:
Erodibility of Soil

Very fine particles can be suspended by the wind and then transported great distances. Fine and medium size particles can be lifted and deposited, while coarse particles can be blown along the surface (commonly known as the saltation effect). The abrasion that results can reduce soil particle size and further increase the soil erodibility.
Soil Surface Roughness

Soil surfaces that are not rough or ridged offer little resistance to the wind. However, over time, ridges can be filled in and the roughness broken down by abrasion to produce a smoother surface susceptible to the wind. Excess tillage can contribute to soil structure breakdown and increased erosion.
Climate

The speed and duration of the wind have direct relationship to the extent of soil erosion. Soil moisture levels can be very low at the surface of excessively drained soils or during periods of drought, thus releasing the particles for transport by wind. This effect also occurs in freeze drying of the surface during winter months.
Unsheltered Distance

The lack of windbreaks (trees, shrubs, residue, etc.) allows the wind to put soil particles into motion for greater distances thus increasing the abrasion and soil erosion. Knolls are usually exposed and suffer the most.
Vegetative Cover

The lack of permanent vegetation cover in certain locations has resulted in extensive erosion by wind. Loose, dry, bare soil is the most susceptible, however, crops that produce low levels of residue also may not provide enough resistance. As well, crops that produce a lot of residue also may not protect the soil in severe cases.

The most effective vegetative cover for protection should include an adequate network of living windbreaks combined with good tillage, residue management, and crop selection.
Resulting Effect

Wind erosion may create adverse operating conditions in the field. Crops can be totally ruined so that costly delay and reseeding is necessary - or the plants may be sandblasted and set back with a resulting decrease in yield, loss of quality, and market value

reas of soil are lost. hump

 

[leftylock]

Buzz and Gunner,
I understand and agree with your positions for the most part. I've been fortunate to hunt the Belts just south of the area mentioned three times in the last five years, the first time I have ever hunted in the West. I've experienced coming on an ATV rider in a closed area a couple of times after a three or four mile walk, and have seen tracks in other closed areas. It doesn't make me real happy! I mailed my application in yesterday for next fall and if I'm selected, I'll be seventy years old on the hunt. I've had a heart attack,arthritus, and about a dozen other afflictions, but I'm not about to give it up now that I've found it! The roads are about a necessity for me to be able to hunt, not to hunt from, but to get access to start from and to end up on. I can be let off and generally hunt down and get picked up three or four miles away. I can also walk four miles down a gated road and access a good area at the end. If i'm lucky I can take my game cart back down the road to get the animal out. A couple of the roads are contoured as mentioned earlier. If I didn't have access to these roads I doubt that I would be able to hunt, and I truley live for the time I can be out there and hunt. I would imagine that there will be a time that I won't be able to do much walking, and I would still like to hunt even if it meant road hunting
Buzz, you said it was your land and you were tired of compromising. Well, it's my land too! I think there is enough room for both of us to have what we desire. I understand your feelings and would probably be standing beside you if I didn't have my limitations. There was a time that I could have hunted as you want to do. I wish I could have been able to come out then, but was not able to.
Gunner, I understand when you talk about future generations having the opportunities since I have a grandson that I want to experience what you have out there. But I must admit to being selfish and wanting to continue to experience some of it for myself.
I certainly don't want to see more roads put in or opened in most places, nor do I want to eliminate wilderness areas. But there are some who won't be happy until everything is closed to all but walkers.
I have met Beth who was quoted in the origional article in the thread, and I think she was right on target with her comment of trying to meet the needs of most people(can't remember the exact quote)

 

[mtmiller]

Way to go lefty, I hope I am still attacking the mountains when I am 70. From the original post it looks like there will be many miles of roads for you to access hunting areas. The only roads closed are illegal roads and roads created specifically for logging.

The plan would leave about 285 miles of existing roads and trails open to motorized vehicles and would create about four miles of new roads to connect existing routes. Some 100 miles of old and illegally created roads would be closed to motor vehicles.

Best of luck with the draw.

 

[cjcj]

I`m down with you Lefty...I hope to hunt and fish until i die...

 

[ELKCHSR]

I'm in your boat Lefty....

 

[1_pointer]

i am not , just looking out for other hunters..

Good, me too! I'm finding that those on hard times can afford a good pair of boots much easier than an ATV! You can buy some of the best boots in the world for under $400 whereas a new ATV starts at approximately 10 times that!

 

[cjcj]

www.jgsales.com is where i got it at.... dont shop at walmart....i order online from a family owned firearms business in prescott arizona.......i never buy from a person who knows less about firamrs then i do. so that scratches out wally world...

JG sales in Prescott,AZ is a GReat place to buy guns and ammo. They know their products.... Screw Wallmart....unless you want to hear "tejano" music when you shop. hump

 

[1_pointer]

Way to go lefty! Definitely an ispiration for me! I hope I can hunt half the years you have!!!

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Thanks Lefty ,
My father is 70 years old too and his favorite hunting area has already been ruined by lazy slob hunters on ATV's . Sad part is we see lazy slobs half his age with their asses glued to the seat of their quads , with a couple of future slob hunters in training right behind them , all able bodied young men of course .
The attitude of " if you can afford them , ride them " is sickening to me .
How about " if you can walk , why be a lazy slob ?"

 

[cjcj]

I have saw most of the damage from ATV`s and here in AZ it`s not being done by hunters....you might want to look again..most of this damage is being done by weekend riders who are just out riding and tearing it up. Not hunters.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Maybe cj ,
But most of the slobs I see are wearing blaze orange or camo , they have scabbards or gun/bow racks , with bows , shotguns or rifles with scope mounts , usually they have binoculars , some have dog boxes .....

But you're probably right , I'm sure they're just weekend riders .