ATV users don't really want to weed out the "bad apples"

[Ten Bears]

Any single person or any group can initiate the process to pass a piece of legislation in a state legislature. I've done it at least three dozen times in Idaho. Every time I hear some fatassed ATV slob talk about how the ATV outlaws should be penalized I ask them why they don't get the Blue Ribbon Coalition or some other ATV group to lobby the legislature for tougher penalties for ATV outlaws. That's when they all shut up.

Aren't you the one IT that said you didn't have time to report ATV violator? How does that work for you with poachers as well?

We found out in our discussion of ATV laws in Arizona that even the Arizona SI posters were completely ignorant of the ATV laws in Arizona.

I believe we found out that many of you ATVophobics didn't know as much about game retrieval regulations in AZ as you thought. Maybe you should go back and reread that one.

BTW, whatever happened to that BRC Director that was caught illegally outfitting for ATV riders?

I don't know, I thought you were going to keep us posted on that one.

A couple years ago I even offered to introduce Ten Bears to the people right at the top of the Idaho F&G and the Idaho Citizen's Against Poaching organization so he could get help in organizing some efforts to toughen ATV laws (which he claimed he was in favor of). Naturally, when I called his bluff good 'ol Ten backed down real fast.

Big talk from one who has no idea of my own contacts. I have been working with Bill Lewis, (know the name?) through a freind of mine. My freind also has other contacts inside the f&g. Why do I need your direction on the issue. I have found that while working the legislative side is slow, directly or indirectly supporting the inforcement officers gets quicker results.

 

[Nemont]

I am curious if anyone knows of any area on public land that has legal ATV travel where there is no illegal riding taking place? Where no new trails are pioneered in no travel areas? I can't think of one area that allows ATV travel that isn't dealing with illegal riding issues. Yet the ATV crowds response is always, Give up more trails and we will act nice. I think new ATV trails should be treated like I treat my kids: First show me you are responsible with what you already have and then maybe I will let you have more.


Nemont

 

[Ten Bears]

Is developing new trails and riding areas really a workable solution?

What is the solution for increased vehicle traffic in the expressway? Is it restrict the flow by eliminating lanes of travel (other then when done for contruction)?

NEMONT, how do you that think would work with the hunting public? If they don't stop all the poaching, do you propose closing all hunting down until they do? Do you really think that would work? Less hunting each year until poaching was stopped?

 

[BigHornRam]

Ten,

Did you read my post on the $31,000 Big Horn poaching fine? We all know that kind of hanky panky goes on, and a fine like that will send a clear message. 2nd offense = lost atv. Are you on board with me here?

 

[Ten Bears]

Ten,

Did you read my post on the $31,000 Big Horn poaching fine? We all know that kind of hanky panky goes on, and a fine like that will send a clear message. 2nd offense = lost atv. Are you on board with me here?

No, I missed the poaching fine statement. As far as the second offense I agree that the penalty must be heavy, but unless there is a means to take motor vehicles for other crimes (speeding, etc), I don't know that it could be done. I know of no other law that would provide for it. However, should the ATV be used in a game poaching incident (whether or not the incident is the one involving the ATV violation) then I think the ATV should be forfeit.

 

[Nemont]

Ten Bears,

The number of poachers is not anywhere near the number of Illegal riders. Nor has the number of poachers increased 150 percent from 1998 to present. The comparison of the two is not a good comparison. But if you want to compare and put poachers and illegal riders on the same field then that is okay with me. I guess the answer is that we should treat both poachers and ATV riders the same.

Nemont

 

[Ten Bears]

If it were my call, I'd place ILLEGAL ATV riders on the same footing as game poachers. I'd even support legislation that made it a compounding offense to use a motorized "anything" in the commission of a game poaching event.

I have supported for years placing ATV violations on the CAP reward list.

 

[Nemont]

So you would support confiscation of ATV's just like they confiscate the guns used by poachers? Most of your fellow riders do not support treating illegal ATVer's like poachers.

Nemont

 

[Ten Bears]

I support taking the ATV/Boat/Truck/Jeep/MotorCycle involved, yes. Around here after the poacher pays his fine and damage penalty he gets the rifle back.

 

[ZAMBONIMAN]

I've been trying to follow all of this, I'm from Minnesota. Here in MN, you can lose your truck, boat, jetski, snowmobile, atv, etc. A poacher from near here just lost his truck, boat, rods, reels, guns, for vioaltions. You can lose whatever you are driving for I believe a third DWI offense. If you have ever snowmobiled in MN, there are many DWI offenses every winter, mainly because just about every trail in the state goes from bar to bar to bar. There isn't many trails for atvers, all are mostly in the northeastern part of the state, which brings in huge $$ from them, just like the snowmobiles in the winter.
I do have an atv, but I pretty much ride only on private property, but I have seen alot of damage done on public land by them. This state does need tougher atv laws, but whatever the big wigs in St. Paul come up with will be a heated debate...

 

[ZAMBONIMAN]

By the way, that poacher I had mentioned, he can go to the state auction and BUY his truck, boat, and his fishing stuff back. Can't get his guns back, he is a felon now....

 

[BigHornRam]

All I can say is one more bad experience with an asshole on an atv, and I will throw in the towel and join Buzz and IT and their crusade to ban atv's from everywhere except France.

 

[MattK]

BHR- In the Bitterroot it shouldn't be that difficult to come up with your bad experience. It runs rampant there as well as where I hunt. There were multiple tracks in the snow behind the gates. There are approximately 10 gates that I'm aware of and all had atv tire tracks behind them. It's the reason I am against all atv's. It seems they can not and will not read the laws and control themselves.

 

[Nemont]

You should see what happens when they hit the praries and run just about anywhere. Every ridge, every draw and every little dip in the prarie has 4 wheeler tracks all over. The "legal" riders just go crazy once they hit the wide open spaces. Thank God for the CMR, and the Upper Missouri Breaks Monument. At least those won't be destroyed in 4 more years when my son can hunt.

Nemont

 

[Ten Bears]

I have had bad experiences with ATVs offroad where they aren't supposed to be, and I have done everything I could to get them busted for it. I run into fewer incidents now in areas that I hunt then I ever have in the past.

When I'm scouting game, I also spend time looking for sign of rogue ATV riders/trails. I have as much fun tracking down these guys as I do finding the game I'm looking for. The best part is you can "bag" as many of them as you can catch.

 

[1_pointer]

Nemont- Well known outdoor writer John Barsness as written more than once that ATVs have ruined pronghorn hunting for him in West Dakota. He said that previously if one would walk a bit that finding good pronghorn country wasn't hard, but that ATV use has changed that. IIRC he now only hunts on private land. I will say that I was sorta suprised of the use I saw in the Pierre Nat. Grasslands. I expected it to be worse from some of the things I'd read. It was present, but not terrible. Of course the tall/mid grass prairies heal pretty fast too...

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, "Aren't you the one IT that said you didn't have time to report ATV violator? How does that work for you with poachers as well?"

Wrong again. That wasn't me.

 

[Erik in AK]

This may have already come up but I don't recall seeing it recently so if I'm rehashing a dead issue I apologize in advance

to the point...Has anyone considered pushing for mandatory ATV liscensing, registration and plates? I mean if your going to turn in an ATV for being in a restricted area it would be helpful to have a plate number, would it not? And it would make it easier for LE to enforce..."s'cuse me Sir, can I see your ATV liscence and registration?" This could be a common trailhead conversation.

If the ATV orgs are serious about their own credibility then they should be pushing for this...after all the law abiders don't have anything to lose do they?
Registration fees could go towards trail marking and rehab, and rider safety classes.

 

[cjcj]

Well i have to say you guys are pissed and have a major problem...but it sounds like these jerks your talking about just have no respect or fear of the law.[am i right?] if thats the case then how will more laws or area`s being closed help? we have a federal government that flat out ignores most "felony" immigration laws.. what makes you think anyone will enforce your road and access laws?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Erik, "If the ATV orgs are serious about their own credibility then they should be pushing for this...after all the law abiders don't have anything to lose do they?"

That's exactly what I've been pointing out for years now. The ATV organizations have never done anything to push for laws that would make enforcement easier and they've never done anything to make penalties tougher. They're nothing but a bunch of whores for the ATV industry. The Blue Ribbon Coalition is the worst.

Take a look where their funding comes from:

KAWASAKI MOTOR CORP.,SANTA ANA
KAWASAKI MOTOR CORP.,IRVINE
Etc., Etc. There's way too many to list, but here's where you can see all the BlueRibbon Coalition Organization & Business Members

http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=14