JoseCuervo
New member
Not a strong feeling either way.
Armed Threats on Bison?
- Thread starter katqanna
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Not a strong feeling either way.
JoseCuervo
New member
Do you have access to the internet? You might find some of the answers to the questions you keep asking.
You get schooled in each of these threads with stuff that you could find on that thar fancy-schmancy, new-dangled internet doohickey.
When do you want the bison delivered to your ranch?
You might want to think that one out.
Compared to bison? Please do help me out with that one.
spook12
New member
bigrack, Heres a question for you and musketballs...
Why all the pissing and moaning about Montana wanting bison on public lands when North Dakota and South Dakota both have wild herds that seem to cause very few problems?
I worked for about a month in the Badlands in N. Dakota, lots of bison there roaming around and I dont recall a single landowner whining about them.
Never hear much crying about the Bison in Custer State Park either.
Strange that those bison herds arent being discussed? Where are the brucellosis problems with those herds? Where are the thousand of miles of busted fences?
Also, the Missouri River breaks country in Eastern Montana would be a good place for bison, even better than the herds in N. and S. Dakota. Matter of fact, APR already has bison roaming around in the breaks. Funny too, that I've yet to hear one complaint from a landowner near the APR property where a herd of bison is already established. I see them every year I hunt the breaks and they seem pretty content just doing bison stuff.
I did hear a landowner complain of elk doing 15K in damage to fences in the breaks, but not a mention of the bison wondering off the APR property and doing a lick of damage.
There is room for a herd of bison in the Breaks, mainly because a vast majority of the best habiat is public, the area is huge, and any damages could be mitigated.
Its funny that ranchers will tolerate elk trashing their fences, because they sell trespass fees or outfit it, but then balk at bison, that I dont believe do as much damage to fences as elk.
Funny thing to on the whining I listened to in the breaks when I had my last bull permit...the rancher that was claiming elk did 15K in damage to their fences wouldnt let me shoot a cow on my bull tag to help out. Said there was NO WAY I could hunt there and kill a cow elk, as they had paying clients. The rancher did encourage me to kill a cow on public land though to help reduce the herd. I would have killed a cow on the private to help the problem, but NO WAY was I going to kill one on public. I killed a 5 point on the public and hope the hundreds of cow elk I passed are knocking over that ranchers fences.
Apparently they werent really too concerned about killing the elk causing them the 15K in damages.
I say get a collaboration of parties together, have the discussion, and give it a whirl...as there is NO question that bison have a place in the breaks.
Saw this guy a few times while hunting elk there last year...at home, where they belong.
Buzz, it looks like BigRack's gonna exercise his right to remain silent on this one.
He's a quick learner, he his.
JoseCuervo
New member
I thought you already knew that answer. Again, go buy you one of them internet things .... Might supplement that learning you got...
Kind of like when you said Welfare Ranchers like Bundy took good care of the land.
Laffin'....
I better buy more cattle because it's going to take much longer to teach you.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Are you 10 or 11 years old?
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Sadly, I'm much older.
It's in black and white what you said.
No one else is saying bison should graze on private land but you.
I think the big clue to what their priorities are would be their name.
Are you saying the RMEF says bison should graze on private land?
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Originally Posted by shoots-straight
I think the big clue to what their priorities are would be their name.
No if you read really close, you see I said you were a moron.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
14 maybe 15?
katqanna
Well-known member
While I was soaking in the tub, the fonts have gotten redder, larger, bolder and underlined.
Being the blunt, honest person that I am, I will say that yes, I see some problems here, but personally, nothing that I think cant be resolved (preferably over good food and drink).
These are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I am going to prognosticate a wee bit and say that I believe we are at a tipping point here with understanding/respecting land rights, private and public and the eventual consequences of this course of action. The laws of physics state that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
With this threat to a public process being shut down, pushing back against the bullies will rock the boat. There will be a fight for the federal public lands. With the billionaire land/wildlife grabs, we are already seeing push back. And now we are going to have the elk brucellosis lawsuit, fighting back for our wildlife. I can guarantee there will be threats, if not actual closings, of public hunter access as Stuker brought up. These issues will probably get worse, perhaps looking like a civil war, maybe a bit like the American Revolution, before it gets better, before people come to the table in equity, rather than lords dictating to serfs, but I believe Montana will be better for it. We are just in the ripping off stage of the bandaid that has been deceptively hiding a major gaping wound right now.
Being the blunt, honest person that I am, I will say that yes, I see some problems here, but personally, nothing that I think cant be resolved (preferably over good food and drink).
- One issue is private property rights. But these are generally discussed from one point of view - the "dont want bison on my property" point of view. I know landowners around YNP that want bison roaming and grazing on their private property. They love it, yet DOL keeps hazing or shooting the bison off of their property. So theres one inconsistency.
- Another private property issue is that cattle in this state are free range. So if you dont want cattle grazing on your land, it is the private property owners responsibility to fence out. This does not apply to other livestock. So heres another inconsistency that cattle can roam free, yet bison cannot, or that ag/ranchers dont want to have to deal with "fence out" as other landowners have to do for cattle.
- Another issue is the public property rights. Wildlife, especially on WMA's, have a right to the public land. Yet, ag/livestock frequently have leases for growing or grazing on these lands. These lands are the publics property. So while many ag/ranchers want to bring up property rights, we need to address the fact that the public is also a landowner with rights and part of those rights are the public trust wildlife which belong to the people, just as the rancher owns his stock. Another inconsistency
- Public Access issues to/on public lands are brought up frequently with a growing conversation that if private landowners want to cut off access to public lands, then public lands should cut off grazing, etc to private ag/ranchers. So while ag/ranching want access to the public land resources, a number of them do not want public wildlife having access to their land resources. Another inconsistency.
- As the access issues heat up, with private land owners threatening revoking public access hunting on their land, such as FWP Commissioner Stuker did at the April 10th commission mtg (ironic that he is on the the Private Lands/ Public Wildlife council), which is their right, we also have a growing public land ownership that is following the same example and desiring to cut off access to public land grazing/crops to the ag/ranchers, which is viewed as a right. Yet another inconsistency.
- Additionally we have the DOL claiming jurisdiction over our wildlife concerning disease, removing those wildlife or limiting their range/entry into Montana. Yet we have diseased livestock that infects our wildlife and the public does not have the same jurisdiction over livestock for prevention/protection from, nor the same compensation when loss occurs. Again, another inconsistency.
- Lastly (just in my relating right now, certainly not in issues), we have "socializing" of an ag/livestock industry by special interests, even to the grabbing of sportsmens dollars for livestock special interests, yet those same special interests dominate our house and senate wildlife committees and environmental committees which control the purse strings for our wildlife, habitat and environment, restricting (and threatening) the necessary funds for operation. A serious inconsistency.
These are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I am going to prognosticate a wee bit and say that I believe we are at a tipping point here with understanding/respecting land rights, private and public and the eventual consequences of this course of action. The laws of physics state that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
With this threat to a public process being shut down, pushing back against the bullies will rock the boat. There will be a fight for the federal public lands. With the billionaire land/wildlife grabs, we are already seeing push back. And now we are going to have the elk brucellosis lawsuit, fighting back for our wildlife. I can guarantee there will be threats, if not actual closings, of public hunter access as Stuker brought up. These issues will probably get worse, perhaps looking like a civil war, maybe a bit like the American Revolution, before it gets better, before people come to the table in equity, rather than lords dictating to serfs, but I believe Montana will be better for it. We are just in the ripping off stage of the bandaid that has been deceptively hiding a major gaping wound right now.
I'm the moron, yet you have zero support for your opinion that bison should be able to graze on private property.Originally Posted by shoots-straight
I think the big clue to what their priorities are would be their name.
No if you read really close, you see I said you were a moron.
Are you delusional?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Pretty obvious you've spent very little time around either bison or cattle, studied the way bison graze VS cattle, and know nothing about the impacts grazing has, could have, etc.
Timing, duration, intensity....for a good place to start.
You dont have a clue about much to do with grazing, cattle, or bison...and you're just being an ignorant ass with your irresponsible 10 year old questions.
When you want to have an adult discussion, and act like one, maybe you'll start asking some legitimate questions that may get answered.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I have no problems with bison on private lands. You say you have a lot of land, knock your self out.
If your more than just a putz, answer any one of the 100 or so questions asked here tonight.
Musket Man
New member
Your private land or someone elses?
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