Arizona Land Grab...courtesy of Republicans

Unfortunately, should Propostion 120 pass, it will probably not stand the test of federal court.

Ben - You are sadly misinformed. This year, we have a $420 million surplus in our budget that is being reserved for future economic down turns. The 14 day camping restriction is also in place on BLM and nation forest lands as well in our state. Reason being, each winter we are inundated by snowbirds parking their RV's and trailers for months at a time. The impact on some of the more fragile environments can be devastating when you have thousands, yes thousands, of people camping, burning firewood and riding OHV's between camps, in small areas. The desert areas once hit by a flock of snowbirds will never recover. In Quartzsite, we get nearly one million people wintering each year in RV's and trailers. A million! The federal government's answer to the border problem is to post it as unsafe and warning residents to keep out of BLM land because it's too dangerous. Our state government and ranchers have an excellent working relationship. Much of our state lands are leased to ranchers for grazing and still have public access as long as you have written permission. That written permission is a valid hunting license. One of the primary reasons for Prop 120 is the push for the Grand Canyon Watershed National Monument by the Center for Biological Diversity which they plan on using as a wolf and grizzly bear sanctuary. The GCWNM proposal is opposed by the G&F Commission and the state legislature but the decision will be made in Washington DC without regard to local consideration. The national monument will no longer have mining, grazing or ranching which has been in place since before AZ became a state. We are tired of people from outside of the state telling what is best for us and ramming their regulations down our throats over our unified protests. This is not a land grab, au contraire, it is a last stand against an overbearing federal government that regulates based on input from people outside of the state with total disregard for local impact.
 
Maybe if Romney is elected it will be better, eh? Obama seems a bit pissed at Arizona sometimes and doesn't want to enforce federal laws there because of it.
 
We are tired of people from outside of the state telling what is best for us and ramming their regulations down our throats over our unified protests. This is not a land grab, au contraire, it is a last stand against an overbearing federal government that regulates based on input from people outside of the state with total disregard for local impact.

The "last stand" was between 1861-1865... did you forget who won? It weren't in favor of states' rights.

I understand your angst however; we have more land locked up in national parks than you have public land in AZ. It could be worse... not only is it locked up, but I can't hunt it either. :(

I have a question for those who are for this, what angle are you coming from? Exactly what do you hope to gain?

Being scared of a few grizzly bears and wolves is a joke... seriously. I would think the trouble along the border would be a much bigger issue. Speaking of which who patrols that, and what's the price tag for Arizona's portion? If you want control, take the reins.

Personally if the states want control , they should have to buy it from the current property owner at a fair price.
 
SAgebrush,

Apologies. I did use old numbers not realizing it. Yes, you are correct that in FY 2013, there is a projected surplus. Accordingly, that surplus is projected to disappear a month after your 1% sales tax extension dies in May of 2013, leaving you a $610 million deficit.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep.../20111018arizona-budget-picture-improves.html

As for the proposal by CBD, it's dead in the water. Nobody from the AZ delegation will pick it up, and Obama administration won't touch it even after re-election. The proposal was just that, a proposal. It has no support from what I can see.

The 14 days is total for the year on all state lands. On Federal lands you can camp for 14 days and them move spots. As the ADSL states on their website, these are not public lands.
 
Stew - Being scared of a few grizzly bears and wolves is not the issue. What those wolves will do to the Kaibab deer herd , the Arizona Strip deer and the Paunsaugunt deer in Utah is the issue. The reason this particular 1.7 million acres was chosen for national monument status was the availability of prey species for large carnivores. After working for decades to bring back the Kaibab herd and management of the Strip to produce quality trophy mule deer, the CBD wants to use OUR resource to feed a non-native invasive species of wolves.
 
Personally if the states want control , they should have to buy it from the current property owner at a fair price.

I think this is the best point in the thread. Unless Arizona (and Utah for that matter) are willing to pony up some big money, they are acting just like these Occupy Wall Street hipsters who move into and claim foreclosed houses as their own without any sort of compensation paid to the owner.

On the other hand I can certainly understand the residents' frustration, especially as it relates to the border. But, there has got to be a better solution than "occupying" federal lands.
 
Stew - Being scared of a few grizzly bears and wolves is not the issue. What those wolves will do to the Kaibab deer herd , the Arizona Strip deer and the Paunsaugunt deer in Utah is the issue. The reason this particular 1.7 million acres was chosen for national monument status was the availability of prey species for large carnivores. After working for decades to bring back the Kaibab herd and management of the Strip to produce quality trophy mule deer, the CBD wants to use OUR resource to feed a non-native invasive species of wolves.


So they dumped those Canadian non native invasive species of wolves in Arizona?:confused: Enlighten me.
 
Hey Ben, you mentioned a bill Derek Skees wrote to eliminate federal lands in MT? How exactly was that supposed to happen? These people certainly can't think the state could buy it. Do they just expect to sell to private companies, or countries? I mean, I am sure an Arab Sheik could just up and buy "the bob".
 
This Prop is getting a big 'NO' from me. There are a number of issues I have with it, but my bottom line is that it's not a good deal for Arizona in the long or even short term. This Prop is all about closing doors - and not to the illegals who should be shut out - not opening them. Handing more power (and more responsibilities) to an Arizona legislature that could **** up a one-car parade is not my idea of improvement. These are the same people that nearly bankrupted the state through a curious alternative fuels rebate. No chance this prop would hold up to a SupCo challenge anyway.

As someone already pointed out, the supposed 'surplus' is a mirage - it disappears as we close in on it.

Clearly, something needs to be done about illegal immigration. The feds are failing us miserably in that and other regards, but this bit of misguided legislation won't help. Just my 2¢ and probably worth half that if I throw in a penny.
 
Arizona and New Mexico





Captive bred Mexican wolf in pen, Sevilleta National Wildlife Refuge.
The five last known wild Mexican grey wolves were captured in 1980 in accordance with an agreement between the United States and Mexico intended to save the critically endangered subspecies. Between 1982 and 1998 a comprehensive captive breeding program brought Mexican wolves back from the brink. Over 300 captive Mexican wolves were part of the recovery program.

The ultimate goal for these wolves, however, is to reintroduce them to areas of their former range. In March 1998, this reintroduction campaign began with the releasing of three packs into the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest in Arizona, and eleven wolves into the Blue Range Wilderness Area of New Mexico.[1] Today, there may be up to 50 wild Mexican wolves in Arizona and New Mexico. The final goal for Mexican wolf recovery is a wild, self-sustaining population of at least 100 individuals.[2]
 
Arizona and New Mexico





Captive bred Mexican wolf in pen, Sevilleta National Wildlife Refuge.
The five last known wild Mexican grey wolves were captured in 1980 in accordance with an agreement between the United States and Mexico intended to save the critically endangered subspecies. Between 1982 and 1998 a comprehensive captive breeding program brought Mexican wolves back from the brink. Over 300 captive Mexican wolves were part of the recovery program.

The ultimate goal for these wolves, however, is to reintroduce them to areas of their former range. In March 1998, this reintroduction campaign began with the releasing of three packs into the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest in Arizona, and eleven wolves into the Blue Range Wilderness Area of New Mexico.[1] Today, there may be up to 50 wild Mexican wolves in Arizona and New Mexico. The final goal for Mexican wolf recovery is a wild, self-sustaining population of at least 100 individuals.[2]

So there Mexican wolves, and not the non native invasive species that the rest of us got. Still no link?
 
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Hey Ben, you mentioned a bill Derek Skees wrote to eliminate federal lands in MT? How exactly was that supposed to happen? These people certainly can't think the state could buy it. Do they just expect to sell to private companies, or countries? I mean, I am sure an Arab Sheik could just up and buy "the bob".

Drath,

Here's the link:

HB 506

Representative Skees thinks that the Federal Gov't has no constitutional authority to own land, despite our over 200 year track record of doing so. His bill would have tried to force the fed to hand over all public lands not included in section 1 over to the state.

Shoots,

Here's the link to the proposal. For the record, I don't support it.

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws...rand_Canyon_Watershed_National_Monument_1.pdf

Last time I spoke with some of the lobbyists who work for the groups pushing it, they didn't even know about it. If the lobbyists aren't even aware of it, it has no chance of getting introduced. The proposal didn't solicit input from sportsmen and does not take into account the hard work that has been done to grow those herds by AFG and local groups. While the concept may have some merit in terms of landscape conservation, the groups involved went about putting it together all wrong, and therefore have a severely flawed document.
 
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Thanks Ben. So as you said, it's DOA. I didn't see in that plan a move to transplant Canadian wolves to the region. Hmmm wonder where Sagebrush got that info?
 
Yeah, I cannot see Kyl and McCain supporting this and without those two, nothing happens.
 
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