Are hunter numbers down?

[TOGIE]

I actually disagree but only a fine picky detail about this statement.

Access acreage to hunt may very well be decreasing but it is millions of acres away from being to a point where it is a hinderance. QUALITY of accessible acreage is a different story. People have it on their minds that they need to be able to shoot an animal with monster horns to have a good hunt. Its what social media is preaching. It is sort of like @BuzzH and his take on the opportunities for NR in WY. Lots of complaining about it sucking but the reality is there are boatloads of chances to pick up a doe or cow tag as a NR. There are boatloads of opportunities for anyone in IL and WI to take a weapon and find a place to hunt. Quality at those places to go are another story and they have evolved and changed and been reduced over time but I have zero sympathy to the lame duck excuse from someone around here that goes "I don't have anywhere to hunt". Boo fricken hoo, you just suck at life.

i think you make a solid point. but it doesn't change what's happening.

what's happening is people are hanging it up due to loss of access. but i do think you're right, if those people still wanted to hunt and get something, they would 100% be able to pull it off if the put in the effort. there is an undeniable element of laziness for some of these people i'm sure - quick to hang it up when the easy going stops being easy. but it doesn't change what i believe is the fact that accelerating loss of access due to leasing and/or wanting it for yourself is a very bad path for hunting to be on and has ripple effects throughout hunting nationwide.

 

[SAJ-99]

Huntable acreage has certainly been lost to things other than development and public land transfer. Find almost any hunter over 50 and go drive around their home town with them. They'll show you thousands of huntable acres that have been lost. I bet that's a big part of what @Nick87 is referring to.

There is "lost forever" and "lost because you can't afford it". A lot of HT conversations always mix the two, but both are happening.

 

[Nick87]

It's a multitude of factors. There were significant changes in farming practices, particularly a move to fencerow-to-fencerow farming that took a lot of habitat away. Pheasant and rabbit hunting in the midwest was great in the 70's and early 80's. Today, every farmer has to squeeze every acre and maximize output to make a living, and a landowner has to make a conscious effort to attract and retain wildlife. That all helped push people toward the leasing model.

CRP helped boost habitat, but funding declined so landowners have stopped re-enrolling for financial reasons. That would be a good place to start, but I'm not sure it would stop the leasing trend.

Thing about crp amd correct me if I'm wrong at can't be mowed until a certain month of the year I think like after July. Which is good for baby rabbits and birds etc but almost everything I've seen is it usually gets mowed right after that so from let's say may til mid summer it's habitat. The other 8 to 9 months it's shin high grass at best. I know the sole purpose of crp is to take crops out of rotation but most anywhere I've seem crp in the last 20 years can't grow jack shit of a crop anyway. I'd love to see those acres get mowed or burnt off in say March. Then you could have some more habitat year round.

 

[seeth07]

there is an undeniable element of laziness for some of these people i'm sure - quick to hang it up when the easy going stops being easy.

This is ultimately I believe the underlying root source right there. Its not just hunting. I have to interview and manage new employees at my job. New employees are not the same as they were 10 years ago. Its unbelievable how quickly the coming of age society is impacting lots of things due their completely different viewpoint on acceptable behavior.

 

[TOGIE]

This is ultimately I believe the underlying root source right there. Its not just hunting. I have to interview and manage new employees at my job. New employees are not the same as they were 10 years ago. Its unbelievable how quickly the coming of age society is impacting lots of things due their completely different viewpoint on acceptable behavior.

but is it millenials and gen z's hanging up the bow and rifle and selling the deer stand? or is it 45-70 year olds?

the millenials and gen z's never picked up the bow or rifle cause dad hung it up when old man jenkins leased out his 60 acres.

 

[seeth07]

Thing about crp amd correct me if I'm wrong at can't be mowed until a certain month of the year I think like after July. Which is good for baby rabbits and birds etc but almost everything I've seen is it usually gets mowed right after that so from let's say may til mid summer it's habitat. The other 8 to 9 months it's shin high grass at best. I know the sole purpose of crp is to take crops out of rotation but most anywhere I've seem crp in the last 20 years can't grow jack shit of a crop anyway. I'd love to see those acres get mowed or burnt off in say March. Then you could have some more habitat year round.

In WI, the land I own that is the program cannot be cut or significantly altered and I'm required to set up a prescribed burn once every 5 years and it needs to be burned only in the months of Dec-March.

 

[Nick87]

but is it millenials and gen z's hanging up the bow and rifle and selling the deer stand? or is it 45-70 year olds?

the millenials and gen z's never picked up the bow or rifle cause dad hung it up when old man jenkins leased out his 60 acres.

Man I don't know how many times I heard that when I was a kid when my friends at school knew that we hunted. "My dad used to hunt but doesn't anymore"

 

[Nick87]

In WI, the land I own that is the program cannot be cut or significantly altered and I'm required to set up a prescribed burn once every 5 years and it needs to be burned only in the months of Dec-March.

I like that, we were told it has to be mowed annually however any food plots you want to put in are ok as its a plus for wildlife. I don't know if that's state wide or varies by county. This was Pope co.

 

[seeth07]

I like that, we were told it has to be mowed annually however any food plots you want to put in are ok as its a plus for wildlife.

You are allowed to mow and create food plot plantings if they are less than 1 acre in size. There does not appear to be a limit to "how many" of them though so I suppose that is sort of a grey area.

Food plots are really not what CRP is intended for though as they are more along the lines of farming acreage as opposed to bedding, cover and food for a lot of different wildlife species.

 

[Nick87]

You are allowed to mow and create food plot plantings if they are less than 1 acre in size. There does not appear to be a limit to "how many" of them though so I suppose that is sort of a grey area.

Food plots are really not what CRP is intended for though as they are more along the lines of farming acreage as opposed to bedding, cover and food for a lot of different wildlife species.

Yah they're all over the place a friend planted some of his in sunflowers in a different county and unknown to him his neighbor works at the county office. Was quite the ordeal they told him no food plots allowed.

 

[SAJ-99]

Thing about crp amd correct me if I'm wrong at can't be mowed until a certain month of the year I think like after July. Which is good for baby rabbits and birds etc but almost everything I've seen is it usually gets mowed right after that so from let's say may til mid summer it's habitat. The other 8 to 9 months it's shin high grass at best. I know the sole purpose of crp is to take crops out of rotation but most anywhere I've seem crp in the last 20 years can't grow jack shit of a crop anyway. I'd love to see those acres get mowed or burnt off in say March. Then you could have some more habitat year round.

I'm not sure what the rules are for CRP, I do know that change in ag practices has a variety of impacts on game (no-till farming helps short-stop waterfowl). All I can really do is post this chart. People can interpret as they wish. The same thing happened in a lot of midwest states. A person could argue that it is now happening now regarding MD in the west.


This is the only chart I could find for SD. SD has CRP but farmers also leave uncut strips of cover available for birds. The state and public prioritizes the birds and the revenue they generate. I see that as a good thing overall, even if a lot of the hunting is through outfitters.

 

[Nick87]

no-till farming helps short-stop waterfowl

You think so?

 

[BuzzH]

i think you make a solid point. but it doesn't change what's happening.

what's happening is people are hanging it up due to loss of access. but i do think you're right, if those people still wanted to hunt and get something, they would 100% be able to pull it off if the put in the effort. there is an undeniable element of laziness for some of these people i'm sure - quick to hang it up when the easy going stops being easy. but it doesn't change what i believe is the fact that accelerating loss of access due to leasing and/or wanting it for yourself is a very bad path for hunting to be on and has ripple effects throughout hunting nationwide.

That's all great, along the same lines as the article griping about allocations and the cost of NR tags.

Easy to complain about the prices, leasing, loss of access, but much tougher to come up with solutions.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday, in about a 5 minute stretch, "I sure hate the NR prices going up"...about 4 minutes later, "Management sure isn't cheap, paying for access isn't cheap".

While not all problems are solved with money, I would like to hear recommendations on increasing access that we can do without significant financial incentives.

Like I said, hunters, and fisherman, are the biggest cheap skates on the planet. They've been living in this delusion that buying an elk tag, fishing license, is really going all out. Its just not.

I usually have to buy a bear tag, lion tag, etc. every year from the GF office here. I donate $100 bill to accessyes every time I go there for a tag. Sad I get a note from the Directors office that I'm in the top 10 of individual donors to that program.

Time to shake the cobwebs out of the wallet if access is that important.

 

[Nick87]

I'm not sure what the rules are for CRP, I do know that change in ag practices has a variety of impacts on game (no-till farming helps short-stop waterfowl). All I can really do is post this chart. People can interpret as they wish. The same thing happened in a lot of midwest states. A person could argue that it is now happening now regarding MD in the west.

View attachment 314758
This is the only chart I could find for SD. SD has CRP but farmers also leave uncut strips of cover available for birds. The state and public prioritizes the birds and the revenue they generate. I see that as a good thing overall, even if a lot of the hunting is through outfitters.

View attachment 314759

I've heard a ton of arguments about the pheasants from shelter to fungicide to coyotes. Its definitely shelter but what surprises me is there is quite a few places that still have a ton of habitat and they're gone. I literally have seen three truly wild pheasant in 20 years and I have no proof that they were actually wild.

 

[TOGIE]

That's all great, along the same lines as the article griping about allocations and the cost of NR tags.

Easy to complain about the prices, leasing, loss of access, but much tougher to come up with solutions.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday, in about a 5 minute stretch, "I sure hate the NR prices going up"...about 4 minutes later, "Management sure isn't cheap, paying for access isn't cheap".

While not all problems are solved with money, I would like to hear recommendations on increasing access that we can do without significant financial incentives.

Like I said, hunters, and fisherman, are the biggest cheap skates on the planet. They've been living in this delusion that buying an elk tag, fishing license, is really going all out. Its just not.

I usually have to buy a bear tag, lion tag, etc. every year from the GF office here. I donate $100 bill to accessyes every time I go there for a tag. Sad I get a note from the Directors office that I'm in the top 10 of individual donors to that program.

Time to shake the cobwebs out of the wallet if access is that important.

yeah i don't know what the solution is for folks in the midwest and east losing access to leases. not my ball game really. i just know it's a reality and probably not a "net good" long term for hunting as a whole.

i have very few access complaints in colorado or wyoming. but i sure do like the HMAs, so i throw money at acces yes every year.

 

[BuzzH]

yeah i don't know what the solution is for folks in the midwest and east losing access to leases. not my ball game really. i just know it's a reality and probably not a "net good" long term for hunting as a whole.

i have very few access complaints in colorado or wyoming. but i sure do like the HMAs, so i throw money at acces yes every year.

They need similar programs and mountains of funding in the MW, and we could use a lot more here as well.

The other thing to advocate for is allowing the Department to offer landowners more money for those programs like accessyes and block. If leasing to individuals and outfitters is the issue, then we have to be able to compete with them for access on a level playing field. Most every landowner can do the math and when those programs are "capped", not hard for an outfitter or even an individual to outcompete public access programs.

But, again, with hunters being cheapskates, its going to be a tough sell. I would like to see how many hunters use HMA's and never even donate $5 here, no question a majority.

 

[TOGIE]

I would like to see how many hunters use HMA's and never even donate $5 here, no question a majority.

that's the funny thing, i've shot 7 animals in wyoming and zero of them on an HMA. but by god i still want them to be there for when i may find myself wanting to focus on using one.

 

[Nick87]

. I would like to see how many hunters use HMA's and never even donate $5 here, no question a majority.

I've always wondered what the average donation is. I always feel like a cheapskate when I do $20 a piece for each guy.

 

[BuzzH]

I've always wondered what the average donation is. I always feel like a cheapskate when I do $20 a piece for each guy.

NR's donate more than R's and that also annoys the crap out of me that I know lots of Residents that use HMA's almost all season long.

If you guys are each donating $20, you're way ahead of most, thank you.

 

[Wrong Burgundy]

From the Outdoor Industry Assoc. 2022 report:

The 2023 Special Report on Hunting and the Shooting Sports provides a comprehensive look at the more than 14 million Americans ages 6 and over who participated at least once in hunting with both firearms and archery equipment in 2022. The report identifies trends and includes detailed information about participation including motivations, barriers, and preferences of participants.

Highlights from the report include:

• In 2022, 14.7 million Americans hunted at least one time with a bow or a firearm.
• Hunting participation increased 1% in 2022 compared to 2021.
• Bowhunting (archery) and hunting with a handgun increased, while hunting with a rifle and hunting with a shotgun remained even with 2021 numbers.
• Hunting-license sales dropped 3.1% in 2022, bringing license sales back down to 2019 pre-pandemic levels.
• Harvesting food and meat remains a key inspiration to hunters, as do the desire to be close to nature and the challenge hunting provides. Limited access to quality hunting grounds and the high cost of ammunition were the most cited difficulties in 2022.
  
  
  
  ***
  Sample Specification
  During 2022, a total of 18,000 online interviews were carried out with a nationwide sample of individuals from U.S. proprietary
  online panels representative of the U.S. population for people ages six and older. Strict quotas associated with gender, age,
  income, region, and ethnicity were followed to ensure a balanced sample.
  The 2022 participation survey sample size of 18,000 completed interviews provides a high degree of statistical accuracy. All
  surveys are subject to some level of standard error—that is, the degree to which the results might differ from those obtained by
  a complete census of every person in the U.S. A sport with a participation rate of 5% has a confidence interval of plus or minus
  0.32 percentage points at the 95% confidence level.
  A weighting technique was used to balance the data to reflect the total U.S. population ages six and above. The following
  variables were used: gender, age, income, ethnicity, household size, region, and population density. The total population figure
  used was 304,745,039 people aged 6 and older.
  In May of 2023, a total of 800 online interviews were collected on hunting and target-shooting participation. Results from these
  in-depth interviews provide nationally representative data on hunting and target shooting participation among Americans 18 and
  over and can be projected to produce national numbers.
  Activity reporting is based on a rolling 12-month participation rate. All charts represent data from U.S. populations ages 6 and
  over unless otherwise specified.