Joeaveragehunter
New member
Hello,
I hesitated to post at all, but if you're gonna work Randy's system, I figure you have to do it all.
#3 Offer something before you ask for something.
I see the question "Where should I go for my first elk hunt, not looking for a monster... not asking for honey holes... etc." Well here is the way I approached it for a bow hunt this fall.
****There are 100 ways to do it better than this, but it's a place you can start****
I have been bowhunting elk hunting a 3 times BK (before kids), last time was a decade ago in Oregon, but the new constraints have forced me to essentially start over in planning for an elk hunt. My wife and I have 5 work days to hunt, meaning 7 days including travel. We can't scout in person, we don't know anyone living in western states and my smart-ass uncles are the only ones who have hunted elk out there and you have to wear hip waders to get through those stories.
Since the kids were almost old enough to leave with the grandparents, I got a burr up my ass to get back out elk hunting July of 2017 and the plan was to be ready for 2018.
**Randy had a great podcast back in the late 20's or early 30's about planning an elk hunt and I took it as a guideline to approach my hunt**
Podcasts are awesome. You can listen to them while doing something else and there is almost an endless amount of them out there. Best part is you can read the description and see what the podcast is about. I listened to every episode of Hunt Talk, Meateater, Wired to Hunt, Cody Rich, and then I searched on others for podcasts that have elk hunting in the title/description. Downside is there aren't really specifics on where to go OTC.
Forums are awesomely terrible. Looked on and googled a ton of elk hunting forums. I have read every post that has MT, CO, ID, elk, deer, bowhunting in the title on this site and others. Some things I learned.
1-If you hunt hard enough, you can kill a big bull in any unit.
2-There are no elk left in any unit that doesn't take 78 points to draw.
3-If you walk far enough back, you can find elk.
4-If you walk more than x miles from the road, you walk passed the best elk hunting.
5-If you walk far enough, there won't be many if any hunters
6-If you walk too far, you will run into outfitters with horses and they know where all the elk are... don't try it.
7-There are hunters on every ridge in every OTC unit and if you didn't live in the 70's you missed it.
Obviously, the list is tongue in cheek. I finally realized that forums are not always, but can be like talk radio. There is 10% truth and great content if you can sift through the other 90% of entertainment value in the posts.
So, I had to get some parameters on paper to figure out where to go. I googled every variation of best place/state/unit/forest/ to hunt elk for the money/time/points/OTC/success rate. What I learned is I needed to figure out what I couldn't do, before I could narrow down my google -which turned out to be every state out west and Kentucky.
Constraints-
Time-I picked an arbitrary number (15) hours we can reasonably travel, in one day, safely, and still hunt the next day, by vehicle and drew a circle around St Paul, MN.
Access-I need access to public land and an OTC tag.
#of hunters-Northern WI gun opener is enough to test anyone's tolerance to gunfire.
#of elk-I am not a wily veteran local bow hunter and will not be able to find tiny pockets of elk in a short amount of time. Previous trips averaged 3 days to get eyes on the first elk. I need a unit that has a decent population.
Elevation-I like beer and cheese curds. I work out, but have been to 10000' in my younger and slimmer years and nearly tipped over after a couple hundred yards.
Success-It doesn't matter if there are a million elk if they are all on private land or 10 miles back.
Camping-I have always hunted from a truck camp. I like the fact that you are always reasonably close to transportation should something happen to someone in the group or if you need to bomb to town for supplies or gear.
Now that I had my limitations written down, I went to formulating the plan. This happened over several months.
Time-15 hours eliminated most of the OTC options for elk hunting in the west. I had to change my plan immediately and expanded it to 18 hours. This would be a sleep/drive change every stop for gas to qualify for my "safe" and "hunt the next day". I ended up with most of MT, Eastern ID, and roughly half of CO.
Access-I took all the units in all three states and identified all the OTC units that I would have access to and listed them individually. This took me a lot time and work, I am sure there is an easier way then the way I did it.
Elevation-I looked at this next. I was a couple 13, 14 deep and I convinced myself there aint no mountain high enough, aint no valley low enough aint no river wide enough, at this point I was actually singing the song and realized that from past experience that 8000' was an absolute cap and 6500' was even better. This eliminated most of CO for me as well as a couple units in MT and ID.
**Curveball** Predators-Wife informed me that there was no way in hell we were to be hunting in any unit that had grizzly bears. Cross off any unit near Yellowstone and a few others in MT. (yes I realize that it is possible for a grizzly to pop up almost anywhere in that country, but don’t tell her that).
At this point, I am left with approximately 30 units between ID and MT. At this number, it was actually feasible to do a deep dive into every unit individually. Having listened to the podcasts, roads greatly impact elk and I looked at maps to see the roads that were open during elk season. This crossed off another 10 units.
Now I had my core 20 units that I could concentrate on. I was stuck at this point for awhile and just compiled data on these units. # of hunters, # of elk, positive/negative comments on forums and podcasts, dissected randy’s shows to find out where he goes, state reports, online reports from different websites. Where did I find this stuff? Remember the 1,200 variations of best OTC elk hunt?
It’s funny because I actually suffered from paralysis by analysis for a month. I eventually read enough posts that said, “JUST GO DO IT” to get me to commit to an approach and see it through.
I applied a point value to each category on a spreadsheet. My headers were elevation, public land % in unit, # of bulls taken resident/non res, # of cows taken resident/non res, # of hunters resident/non res. So if a unit had its highest point at 6000 feet and the was the lowest out of the 25, then it got 1 point. Conversely the highest peak got 25 points. I did that for every unit.
^^^^Disclaimer^^^^ it is reasonable to assume that the more elk in a unit, the more hunters, the more elk taken. Keep in mind your data can be manipulated depending on what categories you use.
I now have my top three units from my spreadsheet. These are not the best units to go elk hunting in, they don’t guarantee anything, they are just a result of me picking arbitrary data and assigning a point value to them because it is the best way I could think of getting to the point where I can “JUST GO DO IT.”
I contacted the biologist in each unit and even asked the switchboard lady on the phone if she knew anything or had any suggestions (I will definitely call her back if I decide to go fishing out there). I made sure to tell them “I did A, B, C, that led me to L, M, and N, and I am looking for any information you have on Y and Z.” It took them awhile to get back to me, but all of them were very nice. A synopsis of the conversations was the elk start high and get pushed down on to private as the year goes on. If you are willing to hike, you will see elk, killing them is up to you. My wife was a little more successful when she called… and got a little more specific information than I did.
This process is 12 months in the making, it wasn’t difficult, but it took a lot of time. I hope that this gives you an outline that you can create your own process in identifying a place to go that fits your wants, needs, and constraints.
IF ANYONE IS STILL READING THIS….
I am looking for places for us to park the truck, set up a tent and hike from it daily. I have looked for MVUM’s on deerlodge/beaverhead national forest around the border and haven’t found one online (n gravely, s gravely, and tobacco root are ones I see) and the forestry officer I talked to couldn’t find one online and said there are some areas that they just don’t have one. I haven’t gotten ON-X yet, and I just started to dive into the new ON-X videos that Randy posted. I appreciate any input or suggestions. Feel free to send me a PM.
Good Luck!
I hesitated to post at all, but if you're gonna work Randy's system, I figure you have to do it all.
#3 Offer something before you ask for something.
I see the question "Where should I go for my first elk hunt, not looking for a monster... not asking for honey holes... etc." Well here is the way I approached it for a bow hunt this fall.
****There are 100 ways to do it better than this, but it's a place you can start****
I have been bowhunting elk hunting a 3 times BK (before kids), last time was a decade ago in Oregon, but the new constraints have forced me to essentially start over in planning for an elk hunt. My wife and I have 5 work days to hunt, meaning 7 days including travel. We can't scout in person, we don't know anyone living in western states and my smart-ass uncles are the only ones who have hunted elk out there and you have to wear hip waders to get through those stories.
Since the kids were almost old enough to leave with the grandparents, I got a burr up my ass to get back out elk hunting July of 2017 and the plan was to be ready for 2018.
**Randy had a great podcast back in the late 20's or early 30's about planning an elk hunt and I took it as a guideline to approach my hunt**
Podcasts are awesome. You can listen to them while doing something else and there is almost an endless amount of them out there. Best part is you can read the description and see what the podcast is about. I listened to every episode of Hunt Talk, Meateater, Wired to Hunt, Cody Rich, and then I searched on others for podcasts that have elk hunting in the title/description. Downside is there aren't really specifics on where to go OTC.
Forums are awesomely terrible. Looked on and googled a ton of elk hunting forums. I have read every post that has MT, CO, ID, elk, deer, bowhunting in the title on this site and others. Some things I learned.
1-If you hunt hard enough, you can kill a big bull in any unit.
2-There are no elk left in any unit that doesn't take 78 points to draw.
3-If you walk far enough back, you can find elk.
4-If you walk more than x miles from the road, you walk passed the best elk hunting.
5-If you walk far enough, there won't be many if any hunters
6-If you walk too far, you will run into outfitters with horses and they know where all the elk are... don't try it.
7-There are hunters on every ridge in every OTC unit and if you didn't live in the 70's you missed it.
Obviously, the list is tongue in cheek. I finally realized that forums are not always, but can be like talk radio. There is 10% truth and great content if you can sift through the other 90% of entertainment value in the posts.
So, I had to get some parameters on paper to figure out where to go. I googled every variation of best place/state/unit/forest/ to hunt elk for the money/time/points/OTC/success rate. What I learned is I needed to figure out what I couldn't do, before I could narrow down my google -which turned out to be every state out west and Kentucky.
Constraints-
Time-I picked an arbitrary number (15) hours we can reasonably travel, in one day, safely, and still hunt the next day, by vehicle and drew a circle around St Paul, MN.
Access-I need access to public land and an OTC tag.
#of hunters-Northern WI gun opener is enough to test anyone's tolerance to gunfire.
#of elk-I am not a wily veteran local bow hunter and will not be able to find tiny pockets of elk in a short amount of time. Previous trips averaged 3 days to get eyes on the first elk. I need a unit that has a decent population.
Elevation-I like beer and cheese curds. I work out, but have been to 10000' in my younger and slimmer years and nearly tipped over after a couple hundred yards.
Success-It doesn't matter if there are a million elk if they are all on private land or 10 miles back.
Camping-I have always hunted from a truck camp. I like the fact that you are always reasonably close to transportation should something happen to someone in the group or if you need to bomb to town for supplies or gear.
Now that I had my limitations written down, I went to formulating the plan. This happened over several months.
Time-15 hours eliminated most of the OTC options for elk hunting in the west. I had to change my plan immediately and expanded it to 18 hours. This would be a sleep/drive change every stop for gas to qualify for my "safe" and "hunt the next day". I ended up with most of MT, Eastern ID, and roughly half of CO.
Access-I took all the units in all three states and identified all the OTC units that I would have access to and listed them individually. This took me a lot time and work, I am sure there is an easier way then the way I did it.
Elevation-I looked at this next. I was a couple 13, 14 deep and I convinced myself there aint no mountain high enough, aint no valley low enough aint no river wide enough, at this point I was actually singing the song and realized that from past experience that 8000' was an absolute cap and 6500' was even better. This eliminated most of CO for me as well as a couple units in MT and ID.
**Curveball** Predators-Wife informed me that there was no way in hell we were to be hunting in any unit that had grizzly bears. Cross off any unit near Yellowstone and a few others in MT. (yes I realize that it is possible for a grizzly to pop up almost anywhere in that country, but don’t tell her that).
At this point, I am left with approximately 30 units between ID and MT. At this number, it was actually feasible to do a deep dive into every unit individually. Having listened to the podcasts, roads greatly impact elk and I looked at maps to see the roads that were open during elk season. This crossed off another 10 units.
Now I had my core 20 units that I could concentrate on. I was stuck at this point for awhile and just compiled data on these units. # of hunters, # of elk, positive/negative comments on forums and podcasts, dissected randy’s shows to find out where he goes, state reports, online reports from different websites. Where did I find this stuff? Remember the 1,200 variations of best OTC elk hunt?
It’s funny because I actually suffered from paralysis by analysis for a month. I eventually read enough posts that said, “JUST GO DO IT” to get me to commit to an approach and see it through.
I applied a point value to each category on a spreadsheet. My headers were elevation, public land % in unit, # of bulls taken resident/non res, # of cows taken resident/non res, # of hunters resident/non res. So if a unit had its highest point at 6000 feet and the was the lowest out of the 25, then it got 1 point. Conversely the highest peak got 25 points. I did that for every unit.
^^^^Disclaimer^^^^ it is reasonable to assume that the more elk in a unit, the more hunters, the more elk taken. Keep in mind your data can be manipulated depending on what categories you use.
I now have my top three units from my spreadsheet. These are not the best units to go elk hunting in, they don’t guarantee anything, they are just a result of me picking arbitrary data and assigning a point value to them because it is the best way I could think of getting to the point where I can “JUST GO DO IT.”
I contacted the biologist in each unit and even asked the switchboard lady on the phone if she knew anything or had any suggestions (I will definitely call her back if I decide to go fishing out there). I made sure to tell them “I did A, B, C, that led me to L, M, and N, and I am looking for any information you have on Y and Z.” It took them awhile to get back to me, but all of them were very nice. A synopsis of the conversations was the elk start high and get pushed down on to private as the year goes on. If you are willing to hike, you will see elk, killing them is up to you. My wife was a little more successful when she called… and got a little more specific information than I did.
This process is 12 months in the making, it wasn’t difficult, but it took a lot of time. I hope that this gives you an outline that you can create your own process in identifying a place to go that fits your wants, needs, and constraints.
IF ANYONE IS STILL READING THIS….
I am looking for places for us to park the truck, set up a tent and hike from it daily. I have looked for MVUM’s on deerlodge/beaverhead national forest around the border and haven’t found one online (n gravely, s gravely, and tobacco root are ones I see) and the forestry officer I talked to couldn’t find one online and said there are some areas that they just don’t have one. I haven’t gotten ON-X yet, and I just started to dive into the new ON-X videos that Randy posted. I appreciate any input or suggestions. Feel free to send me a PM.
Good Luck!
