Anyone care to try and talk some sense into this guy?
- Thread starter mikemulligan32
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rwc101
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I think it's his burner account.
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Bigjay73
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Single Malt
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That's not very nice. JK. After their political stance this year and with a "silly season" of baseball, I haven't even kept up with how poorly they performed. Friends had to tell me what was up. I'm sure I'll come back sometime, though.
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antlerradar
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Montana may have units that are over objective. The problem is the distribution. I am no expert on elk around Yellowstone. So I ask this question. Since since the introduction of the wolf has there been a trend of more elk on the private low lands and a big decrees in the public mountains?I’m not at all for ballot box wildlife management, but it’s amazing what a little fear of change will do to people.
Montana has wolves, lots of them.......Montana is also over population objective in most elk GMU’s.
I have had no issues killing elk, but I hear the stories of how you could just shoot one out the window of the truck before the big bad wolves were introduced in ‘95.
Is that really what we want?
Panda Bear
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British Columbia payed two million dollars to have approx 460 wolves killed after they decided that the wolf was responsible for the decline in caribou numbers.
I fall on the side that believes the decline in caribou numbers is because of the logging of the old forests which was done for the oil and gas exploration business.
Say this three times fast---" the people who are against hunting wolves paid two million dollars for someone to hunt wolves so that the oil and gas business could prosper, which is a business many of these same people want shut down because of global warming."
What was the number one selling point they made for "re-introduction", in your country. To increase Elk numbers ? But they dont like hunters hunting Elk ? I would have to look this up but I remember and in fact shared this on a different thread. Your country wanted more Wolves, which would reduce coyote numbers and by reducing coyotes the lynx numbers would increase in the U.S. which they wanted. Was wondering if they are still selling this in their reintroduction of wolf effort.
On the East coast, we had and still have a lot of auto accident because of Caribou in the road. They were going to pay a large amount to reduce the Caribou numbers, plus fences, signs, etc. We worked hard and won a partial victory when we suggested to just increase hunting numbers and take the money from the hunting tags to build the fences/signs. It would be a win/win for the Govt. No outlay of cash to reduce their numbers, plus the cash they made from the hunters would help pay for the signs/fences, many families had meat in there freezers, and auto accidents were reduced. Many fought this approach because they were against hunting----not the reduction of the herds from shooters from helicopters, but "hunting"
I fall on the side that believes the decline in caribou numbers is because of the logging of the old forests which was done for the oil and gas exploration business.
Say this three times fast---" the people who are against hunting wolves paid two million dollars for someone to hunt wolves so that the oil and gas business could prosper, which is a business many of these same people want shut down because of global warming."
What was the number one selling point they made for "re-introduction", in your country. To increase Elk numbers ? But they dont like hunters hunting Elk ? I would have to look this up but I remember and in fact shared this on a different thread. Your country wanted more Wolves, which would reduce coyote numbers and by reducing coyotes the lynx numbers would increase in the U.S. which they wanted. Was wondering if they are still selling this in their reintroduction of wolf effort.
On the East coast, we had and still have a lot of auto accident because of Caribou in the road. They were going to pay a large amount to reduce the Caribou numbers, plus fences, signs, etc. We worked hard and won a partial victory when we suggested to just increase hunting numbers and take the money from the hunting tags to build the fences/signs. It would be a win/win for the Govt. No outlay of cash to reduce their numbers, plus the cash they made from the hunters would help pay for the signs/fences, many families had meat in there freezers, and auto accidents were reduced. Many fought this approach because they were against hunting----not the reduction of the herds from shooters from helicopters, but "hunting"
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
That's a lot of it. I've been hunting them in this vicinity since the 80s. The "stories" runningmt heard about shooting them from the window of the truck are likely just that..
What I've noticed are very large changes in the numbers of elk that reside on public land a lot of the year, including during hunting season. The numbers are far lower than in the past decades. There's also more tolerant landowners (typically with large irrigation pivots, ag, or outfitters, or within subdivisions/ranchettes.)
Elk have learned to chose where to live, and be safe. They can hang on the outskirts of town, eat well, avoid heavy predation from wolves and man. Or they can do what I think they naturally want to do, which is return the mountains, which now days often has poor habitat. Most of the forest and wilderness land around me is choked full of deadfall and underbrush. The feed sucks for an elk. Most of it could use a hell of a good fire, or some well thought out thinning.
You can still shoot them outside the window of the truck in MT. You just have to be friends with the right landowner, outfitter, or probably be willing to throw money at people. MT elk are plentiful (over objective --ha), and big as ever. Good luck if you buy a general license and hunt on the national forest, it probably won't be easy, especially if you're not pumped about busting your ass for a cow or barely legal bull.
Colorado towns might have a lot of elk move in, in the upcoming years..
Ajax2744
Well-known member
I remember listening to Randy’s podcast with Jim Hegel finger on Mexican red wolves and how a Colorado wolf introduction could be the beginning of the end of a true Mexican red wolf, well a week after that podcast dropped my wife and I went to the Cheyenne mountain zoo and setup right next to the Mexican red wolf viewing window was a petition to get the introduction of gray wolves put on this years ballot. The worst part is people would look at the red wolves and be in awe then go and sign this petition because a wolf is a wolf right?
Spoken the same sentiment including Randy's quotes in that podcast.
Your zoo experience is the heart of urbanite envisioned wolves farting rainbows...
Your zoo experience is the heart of urbanite envisioned wolves farting rainbows...
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
When my hunt is over for elk in Wyoming, I’ll give some details. I already have a solid month or more in the area and 2 of the next 3 weeks. My opinions just based on what I’ve heard from those I know, and what I’ve seen first hand. It’s likely to be the highest I’ve paid in time and money on an unfilled permit. It has been a good time though and I’m not complaining. Wolves do make a difference, along with many other things. I was at 9700 feet 2 days ago on a great wind blown mountainside, saw one bull elk. More than one wolf track.
They have the moose.
MTLabrador
Well-known member
They absolutely do make a difference. Good luck on the rest of the hunt, hopefully those bulls you saw this summer will turn up on public again.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I have often wondered if the mountain habitat is truly their "natural" environment. For the last hundred years, sure, but mostly because they were forced to. Some areas elk thrive are not mountains at all. I suspect that the human settlement of the west (after killing them all in the eastern part of their range) pushed elk from traditional habitat to those areas where people had a tough time navigating with a horse. It doesn't surprise me at all that elk are learning to hang out on private land with lush grass for the entire year.
Zach
Well-known member
This is my only gripe with wolf introduction.
I like the idea of releasing grizzly's in Colorado....... Downtown Denver would be a great starting place.
As a Colorado resident it will be interesting to see how long it takes to eliminate the OTC unlimited tags to everyone once the wolves start taking their part. This is a bad idea and is going to cost the state a lot of $$$ looking at the whole picture. I hate lawyers but I really hope this one goes thru that vicious circle for years.
As a Colorado resident it will be interesting to see how long it takes to eliminate the OTC unlimited tags to everyone once the wolves start taking their part. This is a bad idea and is going to cost the state a lot of $$$ looking at the whole picture. I hate lawyers but I really hope this one goes thru that vicious circle for years.
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