Alternatives for public elk hunting access

[7 mag]

Scrap the archery and general seasons in most HD units. As with other states, manage the hunting of our biggame by HD district and make ALL either sex or antler only tags via drawing only. Make antlerless tags OTC

bad idea would not go over well with most montana resident hunters and definitely would be unpopular with N/R hunters

(but all tags would remain non-transferable)
gaureentee this one rule would close more land then it opens

 

[7 mag]

......and for the sake of any meaningful game management, with EVERY tag that is drawn or OTC.....include a mandatory harvest report!!!

How would you enforce it?

 

[7 mag]

Why can't you just enact a statewide sales tax and pay landowners for access or purchase land straight up (especially those adjacent to landlocked public land)? In other states they also use some of the money for other outdoor programs to help sell it to non-hunters. Problem solved. You're welcome.

I pay enough taxes, now ty,

 

[npaden]

How would you enforce it?

Like several states already do. If you don't file a harvest report on a tag you had the year before you can't apply for ANY tag the next year. Most will let you file late and pay a penalty and still apply.

 

[7 mag]

Like several states already do. If you don't file a harvest report on a tag you had the year before you can't apply for ANY tag the next year. Most will let you file late and pay a penalty and still apply.

To keep it honest you would have to require they mail the tag in, otherwise what's to stop someone from filling thier tag and reporting it as unused.
It happens, more then most think it does

 

[JLS]

A post worth reading again. Montana's long opportunity seasons may not be the reason for commercialization but they provide the "Red Flag" conditions for commercialization to thrive. In order to make real progress on getting access to private land hunters will need to chip away at the reasons landowners restrict access. Each landowner has there own reason but when you boil them down to two. Money and convenience or a combination of the two.

Absolutely they do. It’s worth noting though, FWP has the ability to make a district cow only when elk populations are significantly over objective, yet they won’t do it.

Elk management is such a political mess it’s unreal. I’ll wager a case of beer more than one FWP bio was rather unconcerned with the EMP because it was viewed as a guideline. Senator Barrett then provided the framework for it to be a legally binding document, hence the overwhelming focus on managing elk on private land.

It’s folly for anyone to think dollars for antlers will go away. It’s equally folly to continue trying to manage elk on a macro level like FWP does with current pressures on public land elk.

I’m as a big a proponent as anybody when it comes to opportunity. However, that doesn’t have to be 11 straight weeks of hunting.

 

[JLS]

To keep it honest you would have to require they mail the tag in, otherwise what's to stop someone from filling thier tag and reporting it as unused.
It happens, more then most think it does

Nothing, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the current joke of harvest data.

 

[npaden]

To keep it honest you would have to require they mail the tag in, otherwise what's to stop someone from filling thier tag and reporting it as unused.
It happens, more then most think it does

People cheat on their taxes too!

I think 95% of the folks are going to submit their online harvest report and be honest about it. People can lie when the random phone call comes in on the surveys for the non-mandatory harvest reports too. There is no way to 100% verify everything.

 

[JLS]

Pie in the sky but the only way I see to reverse the trend is to make it illegal to lease hunting rights on private lands. So long as bull elk are worth $8-10k a head, the state will never be able to compete with that. Landowners can still have there private property rights and can even outfit but they can't sell access to a public resource.

Ultimately it seems like public land hunters are going to need a lot of political capital to even begin to turn things in their favor. More than likely it will take a few dedicated, vocal folks in the capitol building in Helena.

This idea has about equal odds as a snowball in Hell.

 

[JLS]

Good post.

I personally don't care if a rancher wants to harbor elk on his property so they give a quality outfitted hunt. At least more elk survive even if I can't access them. More elk, eventually means maybe some will wander to land I can access. I would rather see that and know there are good numbers than the current war on elk that FWP is structuring at the demands of the ag lobby and facilitated by willing hunters who would shoot the last elk in their county if they could buy a tag from FWP who are embracing said hunters demands for "opportunity"

Outlawing outfitting or trespass fees or leasing is a taking of private property rights and won't secure more access or better hunting for guys like myself who depend on and prefer public lands to hunt on. Taking from those who have the management foresight to protect their interests to counter the affects of actions by those too foolish to protect their interests (public hunters) doesn't solve any of these problems.

In the large scale picture, it's not the outfitter's fault and it's not the wolves fault. It's not the NR hunters fault. It's the mentality of the unengaged average resident hunter who just wants to shoot something. When FWP gives in to demands to let them, they are upset that the resource eventually diminishes and they can't find anything to shoot.

Hey, where can I go fill a B tag?

 

[7 mag]

How about forgoing the sales tax thing and raising license prices 5 fold, including non residents.

Imo that would increase poaching 10x

 

[Gerald Martin]

Hey, where can I go fill a B tag?

Whitetail? Come on over. I hear that region 2 around Missoula is the place to get a shoulder season cow. Only 12,000 extra tags for that area last year. The only thing thicker than the elk are wolves. Buy 5 tags, fill them and SSS the rest of the pack. Be back at the bar by sundown.

 

[7 mag]

Back in the day, the western US had a system where small sanctuaries were created on public land where hunting was not allowed. The idea was that these relatively small areas of a few sections would provide sanctuary necessary to rebuild game populations from very low numbers.

Nys, has, areas like this unfortunately without having a warden at each and every one of those sanctuary's it's, impossible to enforce they are routinely Trespassed on and game illegally harvested from the area


.

 

[7 mag]

Shorten Montana's season, structure it around Colorado & wyomings, do away with the shoulder season completely,cut the number of non Resident tags, , put antler restrictions on all gmu strictly brow tine bulls& limit the number
Of anterless permits,available to everybody
This would result in less pressured game, on over crowed state land, less pressured animals equals animals that will stay on in or around public land

 

[7 mag]

GM.? OR, are they all running some form of wildlife commercial venture??

WILKS, BROTHERS, comes, to. Mind Ted turner, and several others

 

[JLS]

Shorten Montana's season, structure it around Colorado & wyomings, do away with the shoulder season completely,cut the number of non Resident tags, , put antler restrictions on all gmu strictly brow tine bulls& limit the number
Of anterless permits,available to everybody
This would result in less pressured game, on over crowed state land, less pressured animals equals animals that will stay on in or around public land

The BTB restrictions are a feel good measure. Plenty of research was done on this in the 90s. Escapement rates are largely unaffected

Not sure if there is a need to reduce NR tags. MT residents view $20 elk tags as God given right, and the money has to come from somewhere. I’d love to see MT go to a system more in line with ID or WY in terms of choosing zones/districts.

I agree with scrapping shoulder seasons. It was supposed to be a pilot program, yet despite its failure it is reinstated.

 

[7 mag]

Pie in the sky but the only way I see to reverse the trend is to make it illegal to lease hunting rights on private lands. So long as bull elk are worth $8-10k a head, the state will never be able to compete with that. Landowners can still have there private property rights and can even outfit but they can't sell access to a public resource.
In other words you Want to te. Me what I can and can't do on my own ranch?
Hahahaha good luck getting THAT idea past LANDOWNERS like me whom pay A, LOT OF TAXES and spend money the community keeping businesses open and people employed

 

[HighWildFree]

State of Wyoming already says you cannot have a game farm on your ranch.

I pay taxes too and spend money in the community. Nothing special about being a landowner

 

[Jmscon]

I’m going to throw this out here.

As unpopular as this might sound, I think there should be areas or regions that there should be no hunting on private. Since that is their only sanctuary in most places (and wintering ground), it would make sense to leave them be. In WA the elk season runs from the first week in Sept. to mid Dec. in a lot of areas. Three of those months are after the cows have been bred. The season with the most hunters in the field is modern and right after the second estrus cycle. I think if the cow was to have a miscarriage or breeding not taking would be from the stress of being chased around those first couple of months.

A while back on the MeatEater podcast Renilla talks about a study done where the antlers of deer were directly related to the nutrients of the doe while that animal was in utero. What happens when the cow isn’t chased around for months on end.

Deer are usually hunted pre and during the rut and elk during and post.

The vast majority of one of our biggest herds is fenced off of private land and what would be (and once was) their winter range. Instead there are several feed stations to supplement their winter grazing needs.

I guess this would be for a region that was under their objective.

A lot of ideas swimming around in my head right now.....

 

[7 mag]

I’m going to throw this out here.

As unpopular as this might sound, I think there should be areas or regions that there should be no hunting on private
Again tryi gvto tell a private property owner what they can or cannot do on our own property will never ever pass.