A story, an outcome, and maybe a change of direction

[Irrelevant]

Dude, sorry to hear @woods89 glad you have access to a dog. I've heard enough stories this year to think I may relent to @JLS encouraging and work my dog on the blood trailing. My big apprehension is that I just don't have the time. I mean @longbow51 pointed it out, proficiency requires dedication, I'm already spread so thin... I mean I've only bird hunted 3 times this year and season has been open for months.

@Joe Hulburt you definitely made some great points. But I'm not sure I want to "work on" this flaw when it means animals are the ones that pay the price for failure. But if anything is going to get me back on the horse it'll be the food aspect. As @madtom said, feeding my family is something I love doing. The idea of buying beef makes me sick beef sucks.

Sure is a crappy year to hang up the bow. Dumping snow, would be a epic late archery hunt.

 

[woods89]

A lot of really good replies here. I've been thinking this over a lot over the last 24 hours.

I think for me it's a wake-up call that I need to recommit to really disciplined practice. I've shot bows a ton over the years, and I've been shooting my current bow for 6-7 years now, so I have a ton of muscle memory, but without really disciplined practice I go on autopilot to easily and don't repeat a consistent shot sequence.

I find that if I have an animal within 50 yds for a couple minutes before the shot happens, I do much better than these quick opportunities. Yesterday's encounter happened in maybe 30 seconds total. It just so easy to drop the pin in and punch the release, which never works out well.

@neffa3 ,Dogs are incredible. In this case I likely would have spent half a day just to find blood, if I even could have, as it took 120 yds or so for him to start bleeding, and first blood was in some really thick stuff. After that we would find blood every 30 yds or so. Having tracked like that before, it takes a lot of time. Several times we thought the dog had gotten off trail, and then all of a sudden we'd find more blood. You really have to learn to trust the dog, as most people's tendency is to try to make the dog go in the direction they think the animal went when the trail gets tough. The dog is not usually wrong.

We gave this buck 5 hours before tracking. If he had been dead anywhere within 500 yds of the shot I'm positive the dog would have found him.

 

[geetar]

I appreciate you sharing this story and your honesty in it. The hunting community needs more of this and less of tv hunters trying to wiggle out of poaching cases. I commend you for your self reflection on this and for being honest enough to take a break when you need it. Hope you enjoy your bird hunting later this fall and find your way back into bow and rifle hunting when the time is right.

 

[elkduds]

But I'm not sure I want to "work on" this flaw when it means animals are the ones that pay the price for failure.

Every "advance" in hunting technology can lead us farther from this if we allow it.

Over the years I've watched the "rules" change and people justify taking marginal shots and blame regulations that don't allow lighted nocks etc for wounded and lost animals.

There it is. Hunters thinking tech advances waive the reality of knowing their limitations. The range is where you build skills and learn your limits. It isn't a haybale or plastic mold that runs away wounded. How beneficial is any hunting tech that results in more game wounded and lost? If hunters with access to tracking dogs, crossbows, long range optics, magnum muzzleloader, or any tech advance, use that as an excuse to take shots they wouldn't have otherwise, that is bad for hunting and wildlife. With several posts about losing wounded game and may hundred times that who never discuss it, at what point does this go beyond responsible hunting to become negligent torture? I find far more value in posts about why someone held their fire. Really glad @neffa3 brought this up in honest terms. I yield the soapbox.

 

[woods89]

Every "advance" in hunting technology can lead us farther from this if we allow it.

There it is. Hunters thinking tech advances waive the reality of knowing their limitations. The range is where you build skills and learn your limits. It isn't a haybale or plastic mold that runs away wounded. How beneficial is any hunting tech that results in more game wounded and lost? If hunters with access to tracking dogs, crossbows, long range optics, magnum muzzleloader, or any tech advance, use that as an excuse to take shots they wouldn't have otherwise, that is bad for hunting and wildlife. With several posts about losing wounded game and may hundred times that who never discuss it, at what point does this go beyond responsible hunting to become negligent torture? I find far more value in posts about why someone held their fire. Really glad @neffa3 brought this up in honest terms. I yield the soapbox.

I'd agree with at least some of this, however......

Crossbows are legal in archery season here. I've always been a little antagonistic towards them, but recently I've been questioning that. My dad has one, and it's a way for a 60 year old man to enjoy the rut. There is no question that they are easier to shoot accurately than a vertical bow. If I had been shooting a crossbow yesterday morning more than likely I'd have a dead deer hanging in a tree. I've wondered how I can take satisfaction in shooting a compound when even under the best circumstances, you can be more lethal with a crossbow. And shouldn't we be trying to be as lethal as possible?
Why do trad archers feel satisfaction about their pursuit? Again, even in the best of circumstances, all things being the same, it would be hard to argue that traditional gear doesn't result in more wounding loss than compounds.
I'm asking because I'm wrestling with some of the long-standing biases in my own head. This is a very interesting discussion to have.

 

[elkduds]

I'd agree with at least some of this, however......

Crossbows are legal in archery season here. I've always been a little antagonistic towards them, but recently I've been questioning that. My dad has one, and it's a way for a 60 year old man to enjoy the rut. There is no question that they are easier to shoot accurately than a vertical bow. If I had been shooting a crossbow yesterday morning more than likely I'd have a dead deer hanging in a tree. I've wondered how I can take satisfaction in shooting a compound when even under the best circumstances, you can be more lethal with a crossbow. And shouldn't we be trying to be as lethal as possible?
Why do trad archers feel satisfaction about their pursuit? Again, even in the best of circumstances, all things being the same, it would be hard to argue that traditional gear doesn't result in more wounding loss than compounds.
I'm asking because I'm wrestling with some of the long-standing biases in my own head. This is a very interesting discussion to have.

We should hunt within the limits of our chosen equipment and our own skills IMO. Its the hunter, not the gear. I'll argue trad gear is no more likely to wound/lose game than any other hunting device including compounds and xbows. It depends on the decisions of the hunter. Distance of shot is a main variable in archery. A trad hunter may know that a 5 yard misrange on a 30 yard shot with his gear could mean wounding, and elect to pass on that shot. A compound hunter may have that same 5 yard misrange maximum on a 50 yard shot, where the chance of wounding goes up with the range. Just a clumsy hypothetical to illustrate how having a longer range weapon in hand is likely to influence the decision to try longer shots, where the chances of missing/wounding increase. Range isn't the only variable, you can make the same consideration with angle of shot, alert vs calm animal, size of shooting window, broadside vs quartering, amount of daylight left for tracking, etc.

 

[Irrelevant]

We should hunt within the limits of our chosen equipment and our own skills IMO. Its the hunter, not the gear. I'll argue trad gear is no more likely to wound/lose game than any other hunting device including compounds and xbows. It depends on the decisions of the hunter. Distance of shot is a main variable in archery. A trad hunter may know that a 5 yard misrange on a 30 yard shot with his gear could mean wounding, and elect to pass on that shot. A compound hunter may have that same 5 yard misrange maximum on a 50 yard shot, where the chance of wounding goes up with the range. Just a clumsy hypothetical to illustrate how having a longer range weapon in hand is likely to influence the decision to try longer shots, where the chances of missing/wounding increase. Range isn't the only variable, you can make the same consideration with angle of shot, alert vs calm animal, size of shooting window, broadside vs quartering, amount of daylight left for tracking, etc.

And yet, if you wait for perfection, you'll go hungry... metaphorically at least. Perfection does not happen; does not exist. So while you're on that soapbox recognize it's a continuum of grey were all talking, where you may think your decisions are correct and others decisions are not. Know that others will always disagree.

Yet in reality all of hunting is a series of decisions of risk vs reward with the outcome being all that matters.

You can stack the odds in your favor all you want and still have things go south.

 

[longbow51]

Fortunately, for those who are hungry, there are these things called rifles

 

[woods89]

We should hunt within the limits of our chosen equipment and our own skills IMO. Its the hunter, not the gear. I'll argue trad gear is no more likely to wound/lose game than any other hunting device including compounds and xbows. It depends on the decisions of the hunter. Distance of shot is a main variable in archery. A trad hunter may know that a 5 yard misrange on a 30 yard shot with his gear could mean wounding, and elect to pass on that shot. A compound hunter may have that same 5 yard misrange maximum on a 50 yard shot, where the chance of wounding goes up with the range. Just a clumsy hypothetical to illustrate how having a longer range weapon in hand is likely to influence the decision to try longer shots, where the chances of missing/wounding increase. Range isn't the only variable, you can make the same consideration with angle of shot, alert vs calm animal, size of shooting window, broadside vs quartering, amount of daylight left for tracking, etc.

Fair enough, and there's a lot of truth in that.

I still think, in practical application, that things will go sideways more often with trad gear than compounds, and more often with compounds than crossbows. And in saying that I have no beef with trad archery.

 

[woods89]

Fortunately, for those who are hungry, there are these things called rifles

I archery hunt because it doubles or triples my days in the field every year. If I could somehow hunt the same amount of days locally with a rifle I'd do it in a heartbeat. There's no comparison in the feeling of efficacy I feel when going afield with a rifle vs a bow.

 

[sethkuhl]

I archery hunt because it doubles or triples my days in the field every year. If I could somehow hunt the same amount of days locally with a rifle I'd do it in a heartbeat. There's no comparison in the feeling of efficacy I feel when going afield with a rifle vs a bow.

I archery hunted every day but 4 this year had three “opportunity’s” on elk and never let an arrow go. First morning out with a rifle filled a cow tag and season turned into bird hunting. I only hunt water with a bow any more and know my distance and shot angles that I will take. I have been where you are with wounding elk and chose to do the ground blind thing to control what I can to prevent it. My success with a bow has been much better when arrows get thrown and I see some very cool things including bears mountain lions coyotes and many different birds. I really have started enjoying the hunt for more of the wildlife.

 

[Irrelevant]

Fortunately, for those who are hungry, there are these things called rifles

You can smurky face all you want, but I dare anyone not named Jason to come to WA with a rifle and shoot a buck.

 

[BackofBeyond]

You can smurky face all you want, but I dare anyone not named Jason to come to WA with a rifle and shoot a buck.

It’s the new rifle.

 

[Irrelevant]

It’s the new rifle.

No, cause last year or was a different one

 

[BackofBeyond]

No, cause last year or was a different one

So he got lucky first year, the repeat was new rifle.

 

[longbow51]

You can smurky face all you want, but I dare anyone not named Jason to come to WA with a rifle and shoot a buck.

????

 

[kimbertracks]

It’s not always practical or legal in every hunting situation, but tracking dogs are a big help with archery hunting. A couple of friends have Bavarian Mountain Hounds and they do amazing work.

Agree! Many hunters aren't aware that tracking dogs for game recovery are legal in Wyoming now. Of course, if you packed for two days into the Wilderness Area, calling a dog is probably not an option, but if you can get to cell service, it's always worth it to call a tracker in your area and at least see if one is available. It's amazing how often I hear, "I wish I would've known about you last week (or last month, or last year...)" I received over 80 calls in September alone...so no one has to feel like a bad shot only happens to them! There are a lot of variables in making a good shot, and unfortunately, a lot of those variables are not under the hunter's control. However, trying everything possible to recover that animal IS in the hunter's control! Before you grid search, and before you give up...call a tracking team!! https://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/find-a-tracker/trackers-by-state/?state=wy

 

[Irrelevant]

Agree! Many hunters aren't aware that tracking dogs for game recovery are legal in Wyoming now. Of course, if you packed for two days into the Wilderness Area, calling a dog is probably not an option, but if you can get to cell service, it's always worth it to call a tracker in your area and at least see if one is available. It's amazing how often I hear, "I wish I would've known about you last week (or last month, or last year...)" I received over 80 calls in September alone...so no one has to feel like a bad shot only happens to them! There are a lot of variables in making a good shot, and unfortunately, a lot of those variables are not under the hunter's control. However, trying everything possible to recover that animal IS in the hunter's control! Before you grid search, and before you give up...call a tracking team!! https://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/find-a-tracker/trackers-by-state/?state=wyView attachment 248749

damn, month and a half late on that hot tip.

 

[kimbertracks]

damn, month and a half late on that hot tip.

But hopefully reading this will help another hunter in the future! So sorry about your lost elk.

 

[Oak]

Agree! Many hunters aren't aware that tracking dogs for game recovery are legal in Wyoming now. Of course, if you packed for two days into the Wilderness Area, calling a dog is probably not an option, but if you can get to cell service, it's always worth it to call a tracker in your area and at least see if one is available. It's amazing how often I hear, "I wish I would've known about you last week (or last month, or last year...)" I received over 80 calls in September alone...so no one has to feel like a bad shot only happens to them! There are a lot of variables in making a good shot, and unfortunately, a lot of those variables are not under the hunter's control. However, trying everything possible to recover that animal IS in the hunter's control! Before you grid search, and before you give up...call a tracking team!! https://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/find-a-tracker/trackers-by-state/?state=wy

This was eye-opening to me when I heard on a call last Friday how busy your group was in September this year, and overall this fall. It seems it happens way more than people want to admit, and hearkens back to neffa's original post.