7mm-08 Ammo question

[targetpanic]

My wife has a Browning AB-3 in 7mm-08. Since she got it we have been running Hornady reduced recoil loaded w/ 120gr SST bullets. This ammo shoots very well out of the gun (consistently just over an inch at 100yds). For our upcoming Mule deer hunt this fall I bought a box of 140gr Nosler Partitions for her to try out. They consistently shot a horizontal group of 5-6" at 100yds I was very surprised. I plan on trying a different 120gr full strength load to see how it performs but....
My question is there any reason that she can't shoot the reduced recoil ammo on the hunt. Is the 120gr SST bullet acceptable for Mule deer? I am pretty confident that shots would be 200yds or less with 300yds as the max distance she would shoot.

 

[VTHunter]

This article has some research to it and would definitely help you more than my opinion: https://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_ammo.html

 

[std7mag]

Hmm, interesting...

I've heard of just plain larger groups, and verticle stringing especially at longer ranges.
But horizontal is a new one on me.

For mule deer i would probably recommend the 140 gr. or if a silod copper you can probably drop to 120gr.

 

[Dougfirtree]

If she's keeping shots under 200, I would think those reduced recoil loads would be fine. Any further than that and I think I'd want more oomph. Federal Premium makes a 140 Nosler Ballistic Tip load that seems to be accurate in every rifle...

 

[Topgun 30-06]

IMHO I would stay away from that 120 gr SST for deer sized game and bigger. I used them one time in a 30-06 and had terrible performance on a mule deer buck shot quartering to and a cow elk broadside. Both shots were about 125 yards and were right on the mark. Both times the SST blew up and although the deer went right down there was a huge entrance hole and no exit. The cow went out of sight at dusk with a big herd she was with and I didn't find her dead until 10 AM the next morning. The SST had blown up on a near rib and penetration was very minimal. By the time I got her to the processor because of the warm weather I lost the right side of her that was laying on the ground such that no heat could escape. In 65 years of hunting that is the only big game animal I've ever lost any meat from. The rest of that box of SSTs was shot at paper on the range and since going to their Interlock after that in 3 different calibers I haven't looked back.

 

[targetpanic]

Thanks guys,
I stopped at the local Cabelas to look at their underwhelming options. I picked up a box of Hornady superformance 139gr SST and a box of Hornady American whitetail 139gr interlock. We will try both of them at some point next week. Naturally in Mass we can't have ammo shipped to our homes so I was at the mercy of what was in stock at the store. I am going to have her shoot the partitions one more time, but I don't think those groups were a fluke...they were BAD.

 

[Gary]

Have you shot more of the reduced loads - to be sure the problem is with the ammo and not a scope or rifle problem? Have you checked scope mount screws for tightness? Checked bedding screws?

 

[targetpanic]

Have you shot more of the reduced loads - to be sure the problem is with the ammo and not a scope or rifle problem? Have you checked scope mount screws for tightness? Checked bedding screws?

We the last 4 shots she took were with the reduced recoil loads...and they landed in a nice half dollar sized group. The thought did cross my mind, and I will double check the rings/bases

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't use factory ammo much so don't know what's out there. That Hornady with the 139gr Inter Loc bullet would be what I'd look at. I am not convinced that all these modern super dupper bullet's offer much if any improvement over the older cup and core bullet's. The deal with cup and core is picking the proper weight bullet for the cartridge your using. The only plastic tip bullet I use is the 75gr Hornady V-Max in a 243, Very explosive. The plastic tip I think increase's the BC of the bullet but keep the range to under something like 500yds and there is little if any advantage to a higher BC. I wonder just how much difference there is between the 139gr SST and the 139gr Inter Loc? Only thing I can see is the tip! So what happens to the tip when it hit's? Has to move back toward the base of the bullet and what happens to the bullet itself driving that plastic tip into it? Sounds to me from what I've read, it blows up the bullet! If I were going to use a plastic tip bullet to hunt game it would be either a monolith bullet or a bonded bullet. Never shoot past 300 yds in the first place sothe tip does nothing for me except maybe make the bullet more fragile! In the monolithic bullet it is claimed that tip insure's the bullet opening. Probably be a darn good bullet but I doubt I'll ever try one. Cup and core has never failed me when I chose a proper bullet!

 

[std7mag]

Don,
What you have is essentially a hollow point. With the tip installed it 1) raises BC 2) initiates expansion ( notice i didn't say explosion).
Bullets like the Nosler Ballistic Tip have a jacket that gets thicker towards the base, hence controling expansion. That word again...

Even most monolith ( being one metal) have tips these days.
Cutting Edge bullets ( made here in PA) have tips that are removable. Heck you can even load it backwards as a solid.

I used a Berger VLD on my last deer. Bullet sized entry hole. No exit hole. Found jacket between fat layer and skin on offside. I'd say that bullet worked very well. It came apart, yup, but it's supposed to. And all that energy got absorbed by the deer.

 

[targetpanic]

Just to update you guys:
We hit the range again yesterday on Father's Day. Before we left I checked that the rings/bases were all tight.
We both shot the gun here are some of the results all 3 shot groups at 100yds...I have the pics run through sub-MOA app on my phone but can't get them on here from this PC
Hornady 120gr Reduced recoil...her 1.32", me 1.18"
Hornady 139gr Superformance...her 3.81", me (4 shot group) 5.16" but it didn't feel like a flyer when I shot it. Without the "bad shot" the best 3 were still 2.39"
Hornady 140gr American Whitetail...her 2.13", me 2.54"
Nosler 140gr Partition...her 4.49", me 3.12"

Next up I am going to try 120gr Federal Fusion and 120gr Barnes VorTX TTSX

On a positive note, I also shot my Browning A-Bolt II in 270WSM micro hunter (lightweight gun w a pencil barrel). I mounted a new VX-3i 3.5-10x40 CDS on it. I've always shot 150gr Nosler partition out of it. I got a rough bore sight, shot a round at 50 on paper, made adjustments and shot 1 shot at 100 and hit 4"high. Made a scope adjustment (the wrong way) and shot one 8" high, made the correct scope adjustment and shot a nice clean 1.21" three shot group. Yes my shoulder is tender today.

 

[119bowhunter]

Topgun 30-06
IMHO I would stay away from that 120 gr SST for deer sized game and bigger. I used them one time in a 30-06 and had terrible performance on a mule deer buck shot quartering to and a cow elk broadside. Both shots were about 125 yards and were right on the mark. Both times the SST blew up and although the deer went right down there was a huge entrance hole and no exit. The cow went out of sight at dusk with a big herd she was with and I didn't find her dead until 10 AM the next morning. The SST had blown up on a near rib and penetration was very minimal. By the time I got her to the processor because of the warm weather I lost the right side of her that was laying on the ground such that no heat could escape. In 65 years of hunting that is the only big game animal I've ever lost any meat from. The rest of that box of SSTs was shot at paper on the range and since going to their Interlock after that in 3 different calibers I haven't looked back.

I had a very similar experience using a 120 grain SST on a whitetail, shot him, looked for hours for blood, convinced myself I had made a poor shot only to stumble on him the next day, hit exactly where I was aiming and the bullet had fragmented inside and left 3 tiny exit holes and basically zero blood trail...I won't use them again for hunting purposes.

 

[targetpanic]

Does anybody have any experience on either of these 2 particular bullets 120gr Federal Fusion and 120gr Barnes VorTX TTSX

 

[Songdog3060]

Try shooting each various weight bullet through a Chronograph. Measure the velocity differences, perhaps you can load (or have loaded) a better performing bullet at the same velocity as the "reduced recoil". Sounds like the barrel is not stabilizing the "full velocity" loads.

 

[targetpanic]

Final update. We were finally able to hit the range and test out the 120gr Federal Fusion and the 120gr Barnes VorTX TTSX. We started with her reduced recoil loads as a benchmark again...she shot a 3 shot 1.5" group. Next we shot 6 runds of the federal fusion and she had one flyer, the rest printed into a 1.5" group. Last we shot 6 rounds of Barnes TTSX and those printed into a 1.25" group. The barnes are getting the nod for the upcoming mule deer hunt.

 

[JLS]

Final update. We were finally able to hit the range and test out the 120gr Federal Fusion and the 120gr Barnes VorTX TTSX. We started with her reduced recoil loads as a benchmark again...she shot a 3 shot 1.5" group. Next we shot 6 runds of the federal fusion and she had one flyer, the rest printed into a 1.5" group. Last we shot 6 rounds of Barnes TTSX and those printed into a 1.25" group. The barnes are getting the nod for the upcoming mule deer hunt.

That Barnes will kill anything in North America. I've killed enough mule deer and elk with 85 grain bullets to assure you they won't bounce off.

Good luck on the hunt.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Final update. We were finally able to hit the range and test out the 120gr Federal Fusion and the 120gr Barnes VorTX TTSX. We started with her reduced recoil loads as a benchmark again...she shot a 3 shot 1.5" group. Next we shot 6 runds of the federal fusion and she had one flyer, the rest printed into a 1.5" group. Last we shot 6 rounds of Barnes TTSX and those printed into a 1.25" group. The barnes are getting the nod for the upcoming mule deer hunt.

This might be the best possible outcome. Those Barnes are going to punch above their weight class given they are going to have effectively 100% weight retention. A lead core is going to retain somewhere between 60-80% of its original weight, especially if it hits bone on the entry. On the high end this means a lead core 140grn is only going to weight 112grns on exit. Which leads to the other thing I really like about the all copper bullets; less bloodshot meat.

Anyway glad to see you found something that works well. If you ever need a heavier load; my 7mm-08 shoots Nosler 140grn E-tips like a champ.

 

[targetpanic]

This might be the best possible outcome. Those Barnes are going to punch above their weight class given they are going to have effectively 100% weight retention. A lead core is going to retain somewhere between 60-80% of its original weight, especially if it hits bone on the entry. On the high end this means a lead core 140grn is only going to weight 112grns on exit. Which leads to the other thing I really like about the all copper bullets; less bloodshot meat.

Anyway glad to see you found something that works well. If you ever need a heavier load; my 7mm-08 shoots Nosler 140grn E-tips like a champ.

I was thinking the same thing as I was loading them into the magazine...boy I really hope you guys shoot good!!

 

[Gunner46]

Save yourself a long, fruitless effort to find a 'load' that will be shootable. Change the rifle. An AirTech recoil pad will negate all the issues you will be spending wasted money on trying to get around such a simple solution.

One time $40-$50 expenditure for the pad, or boxes & boxes of $30+ in ammo ?

I'm truly trying to offer you some sage, experienced advice my friend......I've been down that road.

When the pad is installed, you're unlimited to the ammo you might try !

 

[targetpanic]

Save yourself a long, fruitless effort to find a 'load' that will be shootable. Change the rifle. An AirTech recoil pad will negate all the issues you will be spending wasted money on trying to get around such a simple solution.

One time $40-$50 expenditure for the pad, or boxes & boxes of $30+ in ammo ?

I'm truly trying to offer you some sage, experienced advice my friend......I've been down that road.

When the pad is installed, you're unlimited to the ammo you might try !

Now you piqued my curiosity. How does a recoil pad make a rifle group better? Especially a light recoiling rifle like the one we have been testing