6mm Remington Hammer Load Advice

[Redside]

I finally broke out the reloading equipment I've had forever and started reloading for the first time. Like many people this ammo shortage pushed me to finally make the jump, especially since 6mm Rem was hard to find before and now almost impossible. Although, there is some on ammoseek for $5/rd currently

Anyway, all of the posts about hammer bullets got me excited to try those. I found large rifle cci primers and imr 4350 to go with it.

Here's a list of what I'm working with.

Winchester Mod 70 1-9" twist
Once fired Federal Brass
80gr Hammer Hunter
IMR 4350
CCI 200 Primers
COAL 2.821 Mag length is 2.825 as well as SAAMI (I don't have the Hornady tool)
Lee FCD 1/4 turn
Magneto Speed Sporter
RCBS Dies

I followed Steve's Hammer forum loading process by using what he called a modified ladder. Looking at the various load recommendations from Hodgdon, Nosler ect. I came up with a start load of 43g to 47.3g. I loaded 3 sighters at 43.0g and then one round in 0.5g increments until 46.0 and then did .3g up to 47.3g.

Results below in a graph and target image (215 yards). I quit at 46.6 as I got a sticky bolt at 46.3 and 46.6 was sticky with a more flattened primer. Maybe with more experience I'd take it further but that's as far as I wanted to go.

43.0-2974 (sighter)
43.0-3014(sighter)
43.0-3009(sighter)
43.0-3024
43.5-3037
44.0-3103
44.5-3116
45.0-3127
45.5-3182
46.0-3236
46.3-3240 sticky bolt
46.6-3281 sticky bolt/flattened primer

My thoughts are to load up 3-5rds at 44.7g make sure it shoots as the 44.5 and 45.0 were about a 1" apart at 215yd and call it good. Or should I load up 3rds each at the 44-45 range? Or do I try a few at 46.0g?

I'm sure I could go down a major rabbit hole messing with grains, crimps, coal ect. but if I have a MOA or under load I'd be pretty happy. Also, I can't believe I waited this long to reload, this is pretty fun.

 

[std7mag]

I'd load up 43.0 - 44.2 in 0.3gr increments.

Your looking for the least verticle change.

 

[JLS]

Might also compare with 250 primers and see if that makes any difference.

 

[winmag]

Barrel length? I'm surprised you're not getting more velocity.

I'd just load a few at 46.0gr and see how they group. With Hammer's I just find pressure, back off until the pressure signs that made me uncomfortable go away, then accuracy test a few rounds.

I wouldn't waste the time, effort, or materials ($$$) screwing around looking for a "node" unless you're truly unhappy with its accuracy/velocity/velocity spread at a charge weight just backed off of pressure signs.

 

[Redside]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Hoping to get more loaded and fired in the next couple weeks. I'll report back.

Barrel length is 22". Was thinking the same thing as I was about 100fps under the Nosler data, but they used a 24" barrel so kinda figured that had a little to do with it?

 

[std7mag]

Barrel length? I'm surprised you're not getting more velocity.

I'd just load a few at 46.0gr and see how they group. With Hammer's I just find pressure, back off until the pressure signs that made me uncomfortable go away, then accuracy test a few rounds.

I wouldn't waste the time, effort, or materials ($$$) screwing around looking for a "node" unless you're truly unhappy with its accuracy/velocity/velocity spread at a charge weight just backed off of pressure signs.

If your not finding your accuracy node, then what's the point?
While you may be accurate enough at 100 yards, start stretching out the distance & you may not even be in the ball park.

Every year i shake my head at people at the range getting ready for a hunt.
One guy & son in particular.
They show up. Put a 9" paper plate up at 50 yards.
Then proceed to pull out a beautiful Weatherby Mark V out in 300 Weatherby.
As long as they hit the plate, anywhere on the plate, they call it good.

 

[D4570]

I have a 6mm rem with a 26" barrel with a 1x12 twist and J 9 Herters action.
I have not tried Hammer but use Barnes TTSX 80 gr and superformance powder, CCI large rifle primers.
Absolutely the most accurate setup I own.
I get 3600 fps, I can't say about Hammer bullets but Barnes seam to LIKE speed and have to have a "Jump" to the lands to get their potential.
IF the shortage lets up I want to use reloder 26 and try to hit 3800 fps.

 

[winmag]

If your not finding your accuracy node, then what's the point?

My point is that Hammer bullets are quite insensitive to charge weight and other factors that people traditionally manipulate chasing a node. For example, I will often shoot a 10 shot pressure test ladder spanning 4-5 grains and several thousand fps of velocity and end up with a sub 1” group on the paper at 100 yards. If I then back off pressure signs and shoot a 1/2” group with single digit velocity spread then I’m done. If I don’t get the results I want then I will start manipulating variables.

It’s worth shooting a group to see if it’s shooting well before starting some elaborate load development process. Why send $50 worth of Hammers down range in 3 shot groups at 0.1gr increments if it’s already shooting at or above what I assume is the accuracy potential of the gun? A 1/2” group at 100 with low velocity spread will group well at long range every time.

I have done the abbreviated load development method that I described with Hammers in at least a dozen rifles. A couple didn’t give the velocity I wanted so I changed powders. I’ve never had to manipulate seating depth or fine tune charge weight to find accuracy. The worst shooting of these is a $350 Rem 700 straight from Walmart that shoots under 3/4 MOA.

 

[chrispbrown27]

I always had the best results with H4350. I have a load with H4350 and 80 GMX's that shot very well. That was my deer round for the kids when I had kids to take hunting.

 

[ImBillT]

Half grain increments are perfectly fine. No need to waste time components and barrel life(especially in a 6mm Rem) with .3gr intervals. You have a node from roughly 3024fps to 3116fps. 3127fps was on the extreme edge, or just out. You’re likely coming up on the next node up with your 46.6gr charge, as it’s back in the “group”.

Go for the middle of the node. 44.0gr. Tune seating depth from there IF YOU FEEL THE NEED.

If you want to shoot the next node up you’re going to have to change powders and/or brass brands to harder brass. Your main choices would be Winchester, or neck down and turn Lapua 8x57. You can probably get there with the right double base powder.

Don’t worry about the graph of velocity vs powder charge. If you’ll notice, you had a greater velocity variation over all your 43gr charges than you did in the variation from expected velocity increase from .5gr variance in powder charge. Your ES at 43gr was 50fps, while your velocity increase from .5gr of powder was roughly 40fps. The flat spot you see from 44-45gr was mostly likely the result of random velocity variation rather than a repeatable effect worth noting. If you absolutely must know, then load 6 at 44gr and 6 at 45gr and shoot 4 groups with plenty of time for the barrel to cool after each three shot group. My guess is that you’d see an average velocity at 44gr that was about 80fps below your average velocity at 45gr. Let the target tell you what you need to know. The only reason you use the chrono is to know what velocity your nodes occur at. That allows you to get right on them when you change powders, powder lots, bullets, or brass, and it allows you to test just what temperatures you can stay on your node in. I tuned for many years without a chrono. The chrono doesn’t really help you get in tune as much as it helps you stay in tune, or GET BACK IN TUNE when you change something. It’s my opinion that the OCW chasers are chasing the wrong rabbit.

Also, if you can’t get to the next node up, you could always add bullet weight and stay at 3075-3100fps. I don’t know if 9” is enough twist for the next weight up with a Hammer, so that may be a limitation. You could also drop bullet weight to get to the next node up.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I'd love to know if you get this to shoot in your rifle.
I could not get them to work in my 6mm Rem, but thankfully that rifle absolutely loves 95gr Nosler Ballistic Tips.
I still have a lot of them, so could try them again.

 

[ImBillT]

I very unfortunately just noticed that you used a Magneto Speed. I don’t have any experience with them, but it’s likely that your nodes will occur at different velocities with it attached than with it unattached. Shoot the ladder test without the Magneto Speed, then load 5-10 at the powder charge that appears to be near the middle of the node and check your average velocity.

 

[ImBillT]

I'd love to know if you get this to shoot in your rifle.
I could not get them to work in my 6mm Rem, but thankfully that rifle absolutely loves 95gr Nosler Ballistic Tips.
I still have a lot of them, so could try them again.

Hammers have a rep for being accurate. I’ve never used them, but my guess is that you either did not have enough twist, were not on a velocity node or that it was a seating depth issue. It’s highly unlikely that a rifle will shoot Nosler Balistic Tips more accurately than a bullet with a good accuracy reputation IF the rifle/load were tuned properly.

The OP’s 200yd ladder suggests that the rifle is going to shoot them fairly well. At least as well as a Nosler BT is capable of shooting. Likely better.

Maybe Nosler has made improvements, but I felt like their accuracy really slipped somewhere around the late ‘90’s to mid 2000’s. Even before that I’m not sure they were ever as accurate as Hammer, Berger, Norma, Lapua, or certain match and varmint offerings from Sierra and Hornady are today. Keep in mind that I’m not saying you shouldn’t hunt with them. By all means, hunt with Nosler if you like them. Batch to batch their consistent level of accuracy really started to disappoint me in a couple of varmint rifles that I really wanted good accuracy from.

Nosler makes bullets with fairly unique jacket geometry that is geared 100% toward hunting, and the manufacturing processes required to make those jackets are very different from, and more complex than those of just about all other manufacturers. Their products are generally plenty accurate for most hunters and most hunting situations. I only made the above comment to say that if your gun wouldn’t shoot Hammers just as accurately or more accurately, then there is probably a part of the equation that should have been tweaked.

 

[ImBillT]

I'd load up 43.0 - 44.2 in 0.3gr increments.

Your looking for the least verticle change.

Not looking for the least vertical dispersion. Just looking for what powder charges put the bullet in the group and which ones put the bullet out of the group.

 

[std7mag]

Not looking for the least vertical dispersion. Just looking for what powder charges put the bullet in the group and which ones put the bullet out of the group.

My grouping is done with seating depth & action tuning.

I don't shoot groups while trying to find powder charge.
One variable at a time.

 

[ImBillT]

My grouping is done with seating depth & action tuning.

I don't shoot groups while trying to find powder charge.
One variable at a time.

Why would you bother trying to tune anything when you might be on a scatter node?

Seat jammed.(roughly square marks on bullets from the lands) Tune the vertical out first, then tune everything else.

I don’t shoot monos, and most people don’t shoot those jammed, so you may start with whatever amount of jump seems to work well. It still makes no sense to attempt to tune anything else until your velocity is confirmed to be on an accuracy node.

 

[std7mag]

Why would i want to throw 3 or more bullets per 0.3 grains (or even 0.5 grain) increments of powder looking for an accuracy node, when 1 bullet works?

Your powder charge node will be with your 3 closest vertically shots.

After that group sizing done by seating depth.

Otherwise i veiw it as just putting rounds down range, chasing your tail.

Jamming will also increase pressure & increase the chances of hanging a bullet in the barrel and dumping powder in the action should i need to extract it.

These are hunting rifles, not bench rest match rifles being loaded for.

 

[mtmuley]

These are hunting rifles, not bench rest match rifles being loaded for.

I think this aspect of handloading gets overlooked by a lot of people. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

Why would i want to throw 3 or more bullets per 0.3 grains (or even 0.5 grain) increments of powder looking for an accuracy node, when 1 bullet works?

Your powder charge node will be with your 3 closest vertically shots.

After that group sizing done by seating depth.

Otherwise i veiw it as just putting rounds down range, chasing your tail.

Jamming will also increase pressure & increase the chances of hanging a bullet in the barrel and dumping powder in the action should i need to extract it.

These are hunting rifles, not bench rest match rifles being loaded for.

When did I ever recommend shooting three at each interval during a ladder test? I recommended shooting three at two powder charges in the middle of the velocity flat spot simply to determine if the flat spot meant anything. I don’t do that, because it doesn’t mean anything. That was a whole different issue. It’s not how you shoot a ladder. It was only suggested to help the OP abandon the graph without anxiety.

Shoot your ladder at a seating depth that is likely to give reasonable accuracy. With cup and core bullets. That’s jammed. Load up to book max or pressure signs, whichever comes first, unless you’re an experienced hot rodder that wants to load up o pressure signs regardless of books. When you start tuning and jumping your bullets, the decrease in pressure is not going to give you much more powder. Maybe .5gr, maybe 1gr. This is another reason it’s nice to shoot the ladder with a chrono. When you start jumping, velocity will change even with the same powder charge. If you know what velocity your nodes occurred at, then know if you seating depth changes decreased accuracy because of seating depth, or because you came off of a node. If you try to tune depth without knowing what velocity you’re nodes occur at, then you don’t know it’s actually your best seating depth. When you’re smack in the center of a scatter node, even pretty small velocity spread can yield 1” or more of vertical. You can shoot five groups loaded exactly the same and have one tiny one and one huge one based entirely on random variation of velocity that is totally within the norm, and that would yield perfectly wonderful groups of you were on an accuracy node. What if you shot five groups at that powder charge with slightly varied seating depths? You would think that you had a seating depth that was wonderful and seating depth that was terrible when in reality, you were just on a scatter node watching the effects of an load with an ES of 30fps randomly shoot five shots with an ES if 5fps and another five shot groups with the full 30fps, and learned absolutely nothing about seating depth.

Do your ladder test first. Do it at a seating depth that is not likely to cause problems. You’re only looking for which velocities put bullets at relatively similar vertical, and which velocities move significantly vertically. You SHOULD have a band of velocity that yields similar vertical POI, and then a band where things move away, and then move back toward the more consistent vertical POI.

Your velocity nodes will not change when changing powder, and they will not change by very much when changing bullets, seating depths, or even bullet weights. Of course when changing bullet weights, you may be able to reach a node at a higher velocity than you could achieve before, or may have to find a lower velocity node than one you identified before. When you change bullets, you’re seating depth info goes totally out the window, but you’re nodes never really change. Find your velocity nodes first. Anything else is shooting blind.

.5gr with a 6mm Remington will show you your nodes(it was clear on his target). If you want to shoot .3gr, that’s fine, but if you’ve already shot at .5gr, there is no need to go back and shoot again with .3gr. Anywhere within the node that is not too near either edge, will shoot just fine.

 

[mtmuley]

Hey Bill. Shoot some Hammers. Just for the Hell of it. mtmuley