6.5 Berger 156grn

[ImBillT]

I disagree. Weight matters when you’re lugging a rifle further than from the front seat of a car to a bench.

A) We’re talking ounces, and those ounces can easily be made up somewhere else on the gun until you’re getting under 5lbs. Heck, if you have a gun bearer, and the weight is on your hips instead of your shoulder, you can get almost the same benefit by dropping those ounces from your pack instead of your gun.

B) NRA High Power is not shot from a bench. It’s shot prone with no support other than a sling. No front rest, no bag, no nothing. It’s shot with twenty consecutive shots per string. Weight matters to them too. In fact, a few extra ounces in the wrong place messes with their shooting a lot more than it does a hunter’s walking and shoulder muscles.

A Rem 700 SPS in 308Win is 7 1/4lbs. In 30-06 it weighs 7 3/8lbs. That’s a whopping 2oz!! Oh my poor shoulder! How will ever haul these two extra ounces through the mountains? I hope my elk isn’t too big! I won’t be able to pack out his tenderloins!

 

[BuzzH]

A) We’re talking ounces, and those ounces can easily be made up somewhere else on the gun until you’re getting under 5lbs. Heck, if you have a gun bearer, and the weight is on your hips instead of your shoulder, you can get almost the same benefit by dropping those ounces from your pack instead of your gun.

B) NRA High Power is not shot from a bench. It’s shot prone with no support other than a sling. No front rest, no bag, no nothing. It’s shot with twenty consecutive shots per string. Weight matters to them too. In fact, a few extra ounces in the wrong place messes with their shooting a lot more than it does a hunter’s walking and shoulder muscles.

A Rem 700 SPS in 308Win is 7 1/4lbs. In 30-06 it weighs 7 3/8lbs. That’s a whopping 2oz!! Oh my poor shoulder! How will ever haul these two extra ounces through the mountains? I hope my elk isn’t too big! I won’t be able to pack out his tenderloins!

We must hunt different country...ounces add up to pounds. I’ll try hard to pretend ounces and pounds don’t matter while chasing sheep across the rock piles north of Cody later this week. I won’t be wishing I had a heavier rifle to pack is my guess.

 

[BuzzH]

“I sure wish my rifle weighed a couple more pounds”...said no serious mountain hunter ever.

 

[ImBillT]

We must hunt different country...ounces add up to pounds. I’ll try hard to pretend ounces and pounds don’t matter while chasing sheep across the rock piles north of Cody later this week. I won’t be wishing I had a heavier rifle to pack is my guess.

Two ounces is two ounces. It doesn’t add up to anything other than two ounces. If you’re counting more than your rifle, then the long action didn’t cause it. If you posted your stock, recoil pad, scope, rings, bases, barrel profile, and magazine type, I’d be surprised if I couldn’t cut 2oz.

 

[ImBillT]

“I sure wish my rifle weighed a couple more pounds”...said no serious mountain hunter ever.

Again, two ounces, not a couple pounds. Your argument is absurd.

 

[brockel]

I used to buy or build the lightest rifle I could but they are a pain to hold steady when schit starts happening. Now using the gunbearer I don’t have a problem packing a 9-10lb rifle (although 8.5lbs is a better place to be) and I really enjoy it when it’s time to take the shot

 

[brockel]

Interesting. Got a bunch of Hammers in various cartridges headed for North of Shelby. Snow happens up there on a sunny day. mtmuley

It’s the 5 year old I’m packing with that I’m worried about in the snow. She may wear out fast in 10” of wet snow

 

[ImBillT]

I used to buy or build the lightest rifle I could but they are a pain to hold steady when schit starts happening. Now using the gunbearer I don’t have a problem packing a 9-10lb rifle (although 8.5lbs is a better place to be) and I really enjoy it when it’s time to take the shot

Yeah and and a slightly heavier rifle recoils less too. Unless it’s a long action. Then it recoils too much no matter what.

 

[ImBillT]

Back to the 156 EOL

Ladder test Sunday from 48gr to 52gr

Checking cold bore today

Five shots at 100yds. Royally muffed that fifth shot. The measurement is only measuring the first four.

Five shots at 200yds

The wind was blowing 15-18mph and I didn’t bother to set up flags. Might have spared me the flyer to the left. Whatever the case, the 156 Berger’s seem pretty terrible in an 8.5” twist. Time to buy some Hammers.

Ave vel 2977fps
ES 8 FPS
SD 3fps

That was only five shots. The numbers would go up with 10-20 shots, but SD would likely remain single digit.

 

[cahunter805]

Bill
I assume that’s from your 6.5-284? What barrel length? What freebore are you running? That’s good speed.

 

[ImBillT]

Bill
I assume that’s from your 6.5-284? What powder and barrel length? That’s good speed.

It’s not quite a 6.5-284. It’s a 6.5-257AI, so the same length as a 6.5-284, but about 9% less capacity. RL-23, and 30”. It’s a light Palma taper, so it’s the same weight as 26” Remington Varmint taper.

A 6.5-284 would have less barrel life, but your life would be much easier. If I ever build another big 6.5, it’ll probably a 6.5-284, 6.5-06, or 6.5-06AI. They would all be considerably less headache.

 

[cahunter805]

I plan to start some testing of the 156s soon. I’ll be running them in my 6.5SAUM and my brother in his 264Win. I’m fully confident in the 156s as a hunting bullet and hope they group well.

 

[TheJason]

Last time I checked, German Salazar completely tore up NRA High Power using a 30-06 to drive relatively modest BC bullets at little more than .308 Win velocities. Guess those long actions just suck.

If they were at modest velocities, what then is the benefit of using a 30-06 rather than a .308, other than the lettering and numbers on the headstamp? What then is the benefit of the long action?

Really the only reason I bought a .280 instead of a 7-08 this last go round is because there was no difference in weight or barrel length between the two. Had there been, I would have bought the 7-08.

 

[ImBillT]

I don’t remember the freebore. It wasn’t a custom reamer. I know it wouldn’t shoot 130 or 140 VLDs, and in fact took all the way to .120” jump to get them under 1”. I never adjusted seating depth with 140 or 156 hybrids. It’s doing fine for a hunting gun. I have match rifle on the same cartridge that may see to seating depth tuning with the 156’s in the future.

 

[ImBillT]

If they were at modest velocities, what then is the benefit of using a 30-06 rather than a .308, other than the lettering and numbers on the headstamp? What then is the benefit of the long action?

Really the only reason I bought a .280 instead of a 7-08 this last go round is because there was no difference in weight or barrel length between the two. Had there been, I would have bought the 7-08.

There really was no significant difference. The point is that the long action was not a detriment to accuracy, which one of the factors that the short action only crowd always brings up. That said, he did shoot his -06 about 150fps faster than his 308. More can be wrung out of -06, but he didn’t push velocity with either one. There are guys shooting 308’s almost as fast as German usually shot his ‘06.

I’m not saying that one is better than the other. I’m saying that the differences are practically meaningless. Just shoot the cartridge you want to shoot, and use it in the action length it was designed for. If doing a custom build, don’t put a Mauser cartridge in a short action. That’s not the length they were designed for, and it gets annoying. Hence my 6.5-257AI is on a long action. I can seat my bullets as long as I want.

 

[sbhooper]

The only place where the -06 has any advantage, is if you are shooting heavy projectiles. Using the 150-class stuff, there is usually no more than 100 fps difference. My .308 shoots 150 Interlocks at 2930, or so. My -06, shooting the same bullet only gets about 75 fps more. It could be pushed a bit more, but not that much and so could the .308. I would take the -06, if shooting 180 and above, no doubt. It just depends on what you are going to do with the rifle and your preference.

I do not like Berger bullets, but it is going to be interesting to see what kind of performance people get from that 156, as it gets wrung out in the high-velocity cartridges. I have absolutely no need to use it for what I do, but it is always interesting to see what happens with new and "improved" bullets. Nothing wrong with new stuff to play with.

 

[ImBillT]

I shot Berger’s in matches going back to when Walt still owned them. I didn’t try them on an animal until a few years after Berger themselves started saying you could hunt with them, and quite a few people had already done it and got good results. Now I’m really glad I did. For me they’ve worked wonderfully. To each their own. Most bullets will kill...as long as they’re Hammers.

 

[cahunter805]

The Berger EOL is a hunting bullet and works extremely well. My personal experiences with them have been massive tissue/organ trauma and exit holes even at long range. I’ve had the same results from all the Berger’s I’ve used though.
A guy from LRH has 14 animals this season with the 156s already between him and family. Pretty impressive results also.

 

[brockel]

I’m running them at 3040fps out of a 6.5-06. H1000 26” barrel

 

[Addicting]

I’m running them at 3040fps out of a 6.5-06. H1000 26” barrel

Any issues with COAL in the magazine?