$50 Donation to MT Deer Conservation and related discussion

[MooseCaboose]

Hi All --

It struck me as quite problematic that FWP is making 11,000 antlerless mule deer tags available in Region 7, given what I have heard about the ferocity of the winter over there. Perhaps trying to think out the herd because of CWD concerns? Someone more informed should chime in.

In any case, I just purchased 5 of the 007-03 surplus Deer B tags-- which have an extremely high likelihood of going unfilled by me.

Would love to hear your guy's thoughts on these:

1. Is it ethical to purchase up the surplus tags to prevent others from slaughtering the doe population?

2. Is this vigilante population management or is it justified given FWP's history of slow responsiveness in the face of changing deer populations?

3. In your opinion, is Montana mule deer management worse / or better than peer states (CO, ID, WY)?

4. Regardless your answer to #3, what are your best suggestions for improving Montana mule deer management?

 

[Lonesome_God_outdoors]

Sounds similar to the Wyoming bear hunters who have no plan to hunt. Tag allocation is based on science. But they also are aware of success rates so I don't think much is happening that game & fish didn't account for.

 

[antlerradar]

Buying doe tags is up to you. Lonesome is likely right in that FWP takes in to account the number of unused tags.

I don't have a problem with the doe tags. The number may or may not be right. Eleven thousand is a big number but region 7 is a big piece of ground. The problem with the doe tags is that FWP places no restrictions on where the tags are filled. Far to many does are shot on public land and lots of private land is a doe sanctuary. It is no wonder that bucks leave public to rut with the unmolested does on private. Not a good situation in my opinion. In my opinion not one doe should be shot on public but I could live with a very limited amount of public land doe tags. The current way does are managed is far form vigilante management.

I have spent little time hunting in the other states so I am not that informed on their management strategies. I will tell you that the number of big shed antlers that I have found just across the ID and WY boarder far exceeds the numbers I found in MT given a similar amount of time looking. I will also say that current management of mule deer in region seven is unsustainable. The 80's were better than the 90's, 90's better than the 2000's and so on. Sure there have been some years that were better than earlier years but the over all trend has been down. This is especially true on big blocks of public land.

As for what to do. For starters get ride of the public land doe hunting. I under stand that getting access to hunt does on private land can be difficult and it is likely to result in far fewer does being taken. However hoping to control the population by blasting the h--l out of does on public land is a disaster that is not that hard to predict.
I am not of fan of the current five week season. The reasons for my dislike are many. Tops on the list maybe that I see no reason to hold a season so that a buck that spends all of October in some juniper infested hole can be shot rutting on a hay field in November. Maybe that was a good idea back in the 70's when access was easy and free, not so much now.

 

[bigsky2]

1. It is completely ethical in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with hunters having the ability to self-regulate when it comes to over harvest. My dad has his annual "save a doe program" where he will buy an antelope doe tag and not fill it. Like was mentioned earlier, if doe tags aren't sold out then it doesn't do any good. I don't think FWP is taking into account your unused doe tags, because I can't remember FWP asking about whether I filled my deer tag when they call me every year.

2. Vigilante

3. I believe Montana's mule deer management is worse than other western states, mainly due to the fact that the season is so long and Montana allows hunting during the rut. Idaho was concerned with their declining mule deer population and put in place their Mule Deer Initiative in 2004. Other states actually care about buck to doe ratios and age class, where Montana does not.

4. Like antlerradar said, trying to encourage doe harvest on private land rather than public. This would help balance the deer populations between public and private. I also think MT should shut down hunting during the rut, at least for bucks. I think they should make harvest reporting mandatory so they at least have an idea of where and how many deer are being taken. This is common in other states.

 

[406LIFE]

I think MT FWP had done a great job at management if you look at what is at the core of it all: opportunity. A few select "trophy" areas aside, there are significant numbers of animals on the landscape. True, you won't see many large bucks, but you will find numbers of others. I think we all would like to see more big bucks, but I would choose full freezer over head on the wall if forced.

Understanding that, tag numbers are able to be sustained currently and not impede the goal: opportunity.

The OP's questions predicate on assuming FWP manages for quality as other states do.

 

[Ben Lamb]

We're killing mule deer n SW MT to fit available habitat.

We're killing mule deer in R7 to fit with social tolerances.

We're killing mule deer by hunting them in the rut

We're killing mule deer in a fashion that really doesn't respect them as a native species in need of conservation.

Schuyler - I don't think what you are doing is unethical or vigilante.

The best thing MT could do to manage for better mule deer is manage habitat similarly to CO, WY, UT. But Montanans repeatedly, and loudly, demand opportunity over trophy quality. We also should be looking at shutting down the rut hunt as it's done in R4 (3 week rifle rather than 5) and possibly looking at more LE permits.

The worst thing we could do is to get rid of WSA's, roadless areas, ect, that act as refuges for those bigger, mature bucks.

 

[antlerradar]

To some one that has not hunted Public in region seven for 20 or more years it may seem like numbers are good. There may still be great numbers on some private but the public is a different story.
This evening was a great evening to look for deer so I went to one of my favorite observation points on the Custer. I located seven bucks. Most were small, one may have made the 140's. That may sound ok but to me it is disappointing. I have been on that point at least once every Aug since the early 90's. In the 90's a disappointing evening would have been a dozen bucks and with the near ideal conditions I had today I may have seen over twenty. It is sad that seven buck evening has become the new normal. Back in the 90's I saw at least one 180 buck form that hill every year. That is not the way it is today. The last buck I saw of that size was over ten years ago.