5-Year Big Game Season Structure alternatives

[vanish]

Today should be an interesting day! I try to listen live to these commission meetings but I'm in work meetings almost all day, sadly.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

See Wyoming, they seem to do it right.

Why would anyone pick or maybe even continue the sport if they keep taking away oppotunity? Even though we have a larger population as a State, what are resident hunter popultion numbers?

Wyoming has a strategy for meeting their goals based on their dynamics, which are not the same as Colorado.

Preface: I have not be able to find a breakdown of R v. NR for OTC tags in CO, maybe @Oak can help. So I'm assuming the same proportion of OTC are R as the proportion of Limited Tags.

Colorado had ~162,000 resident hunters last year
Wyoming had 70,608 total hunters last year, 57,000 resident hunters

Assuming that the only variable that needs to change for CO to have Wyoming length seasons is tag number, and that if CO released the same proportion of tags as WY did we could have those seasons, Colorado would need to cut 35,000 elk tags.

You might have to cut out OTC units and it would certainly make everything harder to draw.

Basically sure CO could go the WY route, but it would likely mean you couldn't get a tag every year.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Today should be an interesting day! I try to listen live to these commission meetings but I'm in work meetings almost all day, sadly.

Is there a link to the meeting?

 

[vanish]

Is there a link to the meeting?

 

[jlmatthew]

Wyoming has a strategy for meeting their goals based on their dynamics, which are not the same as Colorado.

Preface: I have not be able to find a breakdown of R v. NR for OTC tags in CO, maybe @Oak can help. So I'm assuming the same proportion of OTC are R as the proportion of Limited Tags.

Colorado had ~162,000 resident hunters last year
Wyoming had 70,608 total hunters last year, 57,000 resident hunters

Assuming that the only variable that needs to change for CO to have Wyoming length seasons is tag number, and that if CO released the same proportion of tags as WY did we could have those seasons, Colorado would need to cut 35,000 elk tags.

You might have to cut out OTC units and it would certainly make everything harder to draw.

Basically sure CO could go the WY route, but it would likely mean you couldn't get a tag every year.

So Colorado has nearly 12X the population of Wyoming, but less than 3X the residident hunter numbers? Not doing a very good job at recruitment then are we.

Colorado claims it has 286,000 elk vs 106,000 in Wyoming. So about equal when comparing hunter to elk ratio. So tell me why we cant run things like Wyoming again?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So Colorado has nearly 12X the population of Wyoming, but less than 3X the residident hunter numbers? Not doing a very good job at recruitment then are we.

Colorado claims it has 286,000 elk vs 106,000 in Wyoming. So about equal when comparing hunter to elk ratio. So tell me why we cant run things like Wyoming again?

Again... this assumes tag numbers is the only variable. Access (no NR hunting in wilderness), methods, time of year, etc. etc. all have a roll...

The hunter to elk ratio is not the same it's very different.


Sorry the 35K wasn't using the right hunter total... in my earlier post.

So year essentially CO would have to cut their tags but half of the total tags WY issues... it's a massive number of tags.

My point is not to that CO has their system figured out or that it's better than WY, I'm simply trying to demonstrate there is a method to the madness and that it's complicated.

You can't want some sort of access improved without taking something away in return.

 

[jlmatthew]

Again... this assumes tag numbers is the only variable. Access (no NR hunting in wilderness), methods, time of year, etc. etc. all have a roll...

The hunter to elk ratio is not the same it's very different.
View attachment 107672

Sorry the 35K wasn't using the right hunter total... in my earlier post.

So year essentially CO would have to cut their tags but half of the total tags WY issues... it's a massive number of tags.

My point is not to that CO has their system figured out or that it's better than WY, I'm simply trying to demonstrate there is a method to the madness and that it's complicated.

You can't want some sort of access improved without taking something away in return.

I'm comparing Resident vs Resident. When Wyoming needs to cut tag numbers, it comes from the Nonresident side. Residents reguardless of where they live should have priority for tags.

How many CO residents are just weekend hunters? Nonresidents dont typically come out for a couple days, so I could argue they put more stress on the resource. Also with unlimited tags available to anyone we will never have hunter access programs like WY or MT due to the money outfitters and nonresidents are willing to pay. Another loss for resident opportunity

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm comparing Resident vs Resident. When Wyoming needs to cut tag numbers, it comes from the Nonresident side. Residents reguardless of where they live should have priority for tags.

How many CO residents are just weekend hunters? Nonresidents dont typically come out for a couple days, so I could argue they put more stress on the resource. Also with unlimited tags available to anyone we will never have hunter access programs like WY or MT due to the money outfitters and nonresidents are willing to pay. Another loss for resident opportunity

I think the numbers given our parameters support your conclusions. I think you could cut just NR OTC tags and move CO closer to a WY system, in theory.
Obviously to give R a full 6 week archery + 6 week rifle season you would have to look at all the other variables... but you aren't wrong.

The cost to budget would be $20,491,000

 

[vanish]

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

I guess I got excited. BGSS is the last thing on the agenda, so we probably won't hear it until tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@vanish they are going over it now...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The bear recomendations... holy crap CO why does it need to be so complicated.

1 tag that's unlimited for most units good Sept 2 - end of 4th season

 

[cedahm]

The bear recomendations... holy crap CO why does it need to be so complicated.

1 tag that's unlimited for most units good Sept 2 - end of 4th season

As the commission would say “seconded”

A guy like me Is (should be) probably their target market for bear harvest increases. I’ve bought bear tags before, but most years I don’t even bother because of the rule set.

Beyond that- I am trying to listen over United’s inflight wifi so it’s choppy at best but it was abundantly clear that They REALLY don’t want to talk at all about Allocations when Steve the CBA guy was introduced.

Which seems a little disingenuous seeing as many of their proposed alternatives involve limited licenses.

Brays comment on ‘if they go limited they automatically go against the allocation rule’ is correct, but I don’t see how they can advise/propose changes on one side (making more licenses limited) without having analyzed and predicted impacts on the other side (how the alternatives are likely to play out operationally and financially with current 65/35 or 80/20 allocation rules)



I am WAY distant from a tinfoil hat conspiracy dude, but comments like that sure smell like their minds are made up already.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

As the commission would say “seconded”

A guy like me Is (should be) probably their target market for bear harvest increases. I’ve bought bear tags before, but most years I don’t even bother because of the rule set.

Beyond that- I am trying to listen over United’s inflight wifi so it’s choppy at best but it was abundantly clear that They REALLY don’t want to talk at all about Allocations when Steve the CBA guy was introduced.

Which seems a little disingenuous seeing as many of their proposed alternatives involve limited licenses.

Brays comment on ‘if they go limited they automatically go against the allocation rule’ is correct, but I don’t see how they can advise/propose changes on one side (making more licenses limited) without having analyzed and predicted impacts on the other side (how the alternatives are likely to play out operationally and financially with current 65/35 or 80/20 allocation rules)



I am WAY distant from a tinfoil hat conspiracy dude, but comments like that sure smell like their minds are made up already.

Agree. In Montana I got a bear tag every year just in case... it's a huge PITA to do that in CO.

I think the commission is trying to avoid the exact issue I highlighted in comment #68... you cant take allocation with talking about the funding issue.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Quick Summary:

Archery: Looks like commissioners like 1 and 2, with preference for 2

Rifle: Looks like the commissioners like option 3 the best, but making 2nd season 7 days and 3rd season 7 days instead of 5 and 9

Some commissioners seem confused on how moose season works Seemed like a couple commissioners were in favor of the season choice for bull moose, being able to hunt all three seasons until you fill your tag.

 

[vanish]

They're looking at this preliminary data already. Take this survey now! https://www.research.net/r/JP8Z868

 

[Ben Sellers]

They're looking at this preliminary data already. Take this survey now! https://www.research.net/r/JP8Z868

Thanks for posting the link. Took the survey.

 

[Oak]

Some commissioners seem confused on how moose season works Seemed like a couple commissioners were in favor of the season choice for bull moose, being able to hunt all three seasons until you fill your tag.

Yes, that was ridiculous. No concept of how the moose draw works currently.

I heard a lot of "I'm in favor of reducing...," "I'm in favor of limiting...," I'm in favor of eliminating...."

I'm old enough to remember when hunter recruitment was a primary concern of CPW, so I'm very surprised that the commissioners are supportive of not having a single rifle season with more that one weekend (kids).

One commissioner was "very surprised" that there were only two public comments. Probably doesn't have anything to do with holding the meeting in La Junta, 60 miles from NM, 70 miles from OK, and 80 miles from KS.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Yes, that was ridiculous. No concept of how the moose draw works currently.

I heard a lot of "I'm in favor of reducing...," "I'm in favor of limiting...," I'm in favor of eliminating...."

I'm old enough to remember when hunter recruitment was a primary concern of CPW, so I'm very surprised that the commissioners are supportive of not having a single rifle season with more that one weekend (kids).

One commissioner was "very surprised" that there were only two public comments. Probably doesn't have anything to do with holding the meeting in La Junta, 60 miles from NM, 70 miles from OK, and 80 miles from KS.

My thoughts exactly...

 

[Carnage2011]

These are just my observations from the couple times I’ve hunted Colorado.

1) I’ve hunted 3rd season deer two years in a row in a unit with OTC elk tags. I see more elk hunters in those 9 days than I do during the entire Montana general season. There are literally hunters in every draining.

2) The overall quality of bulls is solid. Both years I’ve been down there I could have easily shot 300”+ bulls, and have seen bigger on both trips.

3) For some reason the hunters in Colorado don’t seem to glass hardly at all. I watched the same guys take the same loops every day for 4-5 days and then complain about the elk hunting. I literally had elk in my way several times.

4) Maybe I’m crazy, but I think those elk get hunted harder in 9 days than most of the elk in MT do. I think the majority of Montana hunters hunt weekends, and sometimes skip the weekend if the weather is too cold/hot. When the season is only 9 days you have to hunt or you’ll run out of time.

These are just my observations. I’ve never hunted any other units so it could be the area I’m hunting as well.

However, the average bull in Colorado that I’ve seen is much better than the average during Montana’s rifle season.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

These are just my observations from the couple times I’ve hunted Colorado.

1) I’ve hunted 3rd season deer two years in a row in a unit with OTC elk tags. I see more elk hunters in those 9 days than I do during the entire Montana general season. There are literally hunters in every draining.

2) The overall quality of bulls is solid. Both years I’ve been down there I could have easily shot 300”+ bulls, and have seen bigger on both trips.

3) For some reason the hunters in Colorado don’t seem to glass hardly at all. I watched the same guys take the same loops every day for 4-5 days and then complain about the elk hunting. I literally had elk in my way several times.

4) Maybe I’m crazy, but I think those elk get hunted harder in 9 days than most of the elk in MT do. I think the majority of Montana hunters hunt weekends, and sometimes skip the weekend if the weather is too cold/hot. When the season is only 9 days you have to hunt or you’ll run out of time.

These are just my observations. I’ve never hunted any other units so it could be the area I’m hunting as well.

However, the average bull in Colorado that I’ve seen is much better than the average during Montana’s rifle season.

My experience as well. More people but also more elk.