450 or 45-70

[pointingdogsrule]

Looking at trading a gun that I do not use for either a 450 or 45-70. Opinions welcome. What most concerns me is that the ammo for the 450??? may be limited in the future as I do some reading. Also between a lever action (probably legal in all states) vs. a Bushmaster AR (maybe NOT legal in some states). Let's hear what you guys have to say. THANKS. By the way this will be used for whitetail in Iowa.

good luck to all
the dog

 

[AssawomanGunsmith]

If it were me Id go with the 45-70 for the reasons you state about ammo availability, its tried and true.

 

[ignorethefringes]

I'm going to call in @BrentD on this one . . .

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I'm going to call in @BrentD on this one . . .

Ha agreed. But isn't a +p 45-70 more powerful than a 450?

 

[EastTNHunter]

A 45/70 can be loaded to 450 power if you handload. 45/70 ammo and brass is somewhat affordable ubiquitous, whereas 450 ammo and brass are expensive and hard to come by.

And, the rimmed 45/70 case just looks cool and is dripping with panache

 

[BrentD]

I'm going to call in @BrentD on this one . . .

And you probably can guess which I would pick...

No question, I would opt for the .45-70. I'd go for a single shot over a multishooter like a Marlin lever gun, but either way, the .45-70s rules.

As a single shot, it is a lot friendlier for shooting with blackpowder, and who wouldn't want to do that? You could also build yourself a real "beanfield rifle" if you wanted. The .45-70 has the power for any range that you are capable of. I'm not so sure the .450 would be much of a long range rifle. I am not aware of the rifling twist in .450 barrels, but I would wager it is very slow in comparison to even lever rifles in .45-70. Singleshot .45-70s are usually barreled with an 18" twist and will handle bullets well in excess of 500 grs for true long range capabilities.

That said, i don't see Iowa outlawing ARs anytime soon, but that would be a might clunky hunting rifle for sure.

 

[MThuntr]

45-70. You can load it just as hot at 450 marlin. If you cast your own bullets, you can get some wicked bullets made specifically for your rifle bore and then the fun begins...also you can powder coat them.

You could build a bolt rifle in 458x2" (cut down 458 WinMag) which would be fun

 

[pointingdogsrule]

And you probably can guess which I would pick...

No question, I would opt for the .45-70. I'd go for a single shot over a multishooter like a Marlin lever gun, but either way, the .45-70s rules.

As a single shot, it is a lot friendlier for shooting with blackpowder, and who wouldn't want to do that? You could also build yourself a real "beanfield rifle" if you wanted. The .45-70 has the power for any range that you are capable of. I'm not so sure the .450 would be much of a long range rifle. I am not aware of the rifling twist in .450 barrels, but I would wager it is very slow in comparison to even lever rifles in .45-70. Singleshot .45-70s are usually barreled with an 18" twist and will handle bullets well in excess of 500 grs for true long range capabilities.

That said, i don't see Iowa outlawing ARs anytime soon, but that would be a might clunky hunting rifle for sure.

Thanks. Suggestions on single shots? Do the also bolt action? I've decided on the 45 70 from what you guys have suggested.

 

[MThuntr]

I'm not aware of current 45-70 made in bolt gun. I see some old Japanese rifles have been converted at gun shows. Like I previously mentioned a 458x2" would be pretty dang close to 45-70 or 450 and would work in a bolt action. 450 Marlin in a bolt gun would be superior to the 458x2

 

[BrentD]

Thanks. Suggestions on single shots? Do the also bolt action? I've decided on the 45 70 from what you guys have suggested.

Depends on what you want to spend. A Shiloh Sharps in one of its many configurations would be the choice of many and Shilohs are easily the highest quality rifle being made in American today - bar none.

There are some bolt action .45-70s but none are common, nor particularly well thought of.

I do not thing Mthuntr's suggestion would be legal. I would avoid such hotrods in any event.

Harrington Richards made an inexpensive break-action single shot that had a good reputation as a real value. Pretty accurate and very low cost.

Other good rifles - Browning/Winchester 1885 BPCR Highwalls. Easily found on the used market.

Original trapdoors are wonderful guns. But plan on buying a mould and loading your own. These have oversized bores and really are best with lead bullets and blackpowder. H&R reproductions are not particularly loved by anyone that I know.

C.Sharps Arms makes very good 1874 and 1875 Sharps models. Also pretty easy to find used in excellent condition. CPA also makes an approximate version of the Stevens 44.5 and it is an excellent rifle. It is also a rifle that uses switchable barrels so you can do a lot with one if you wish to have other calibers for other purposes. These rifles can be bought new or used.

In lever guns, there is the .45-70 Marlin Cowboy that was well thought of until the Marlin company sort of fell apart. The original Marlin 1895 (only 5000 made) is hard to find and expensive but probably the best of the best in lever guns, closely followed by the more common but excellent 1886 Winchesters. Browning Clones of the 1886 have a good reputation. Uberti clones of the 1886 have a horrible reputation.

Old Marlin 1881's are also pretty easy to find. Not as strong as the 86 winchester or orignal 95 Marlin.

I think I have, let's see, four .45-70s. One Winchester 1885 custom, a Sharps 1877 Axtell reproduction, an original, rebuilt Marlin 1895, and a Ballard #5 Pacific original. I probably need another.

 

[Panda Bear]

It sounds like you have already decided and definitely Brent is the man to ask, but will share with you what I was told a couple years ago when I was thinking about the same thing. We have both available and played with both a bit.

Unlike Brent, I prefer the lever action, it gives me a few more shots, quicker, if I am suddenly in an uncomfortable situation. But you would not have that problem hunting whitetails in Iowa LOL

The 450 Marlin in a short action bolt could get you close to 458 win performance if that is important to you. But the 45/70 lever will provide all you will need for anything in N.A. and far more bullet choices. In fact unless you reload I think the 450 has a bullet choice of one.

In th lever I prefer the BLR over the Marlin, as it has a longer barrel and can be loaded to higher pressures, however Brent once said the BLR looks similar to a post hole digger ( or something like that ) LOL

You might also check out the rifles Wild West makes, they are nice

Holy mackerel , Brent was typing when I was AND he has MUCH bette info than I-- I would trust what Brent is telling you

 

[BrentD]

panda,
For sure, the .450 marlin would not be legal in Iowa. The rules in Iowa are a bit complicated but hte .450 marlin is not in play. I was assuming the OP was refering to the .450 bushmaster that one can stuff in an AR15 "platform" rifle.

If the BLR looked as good as a posthole digger, they might sell a dozen of them. Maybe.

Have you been hunting recently up there? I don't think you will ever beat that 1871 Winchester for what you do.

 

[MThuntr]

I do not thing Mthuntr's suggestion would be legal. I would avoid such hotrods in any event.

Good call. I dug around in the IA regs and saw the specific exemption for 45-70 (as well as 444 Marlin and 375 Win). So yeah I think the initial reference is the 450 bushmaster. Knowing the exemption a 444Marlin would be nice to have too.

Something to be said about a nice Sharps in 45-70. I really need to buy one (along with about 10 other rifles too)

 

[Addicting]

The 45-70 isn’t legal for deer in many places that have a straight wall cartridge rule. Most of them a 450 bushmaster is.

I ended up with a Custom SA Rem 700 in .450 Bushmaster.

Building a new rifle verses buying

I found this .450 Bushmaster built on a Howa 1500 SA that was a really nice gun. I am in the market for a new rifle that I can use here in MI Shotgun zone and .450 B is the most reasonable choice. I wanted to open up to the forum as this is would be my first build. I don't have any use for...

www.hunttalk.com

From what folks have said above, 450 Bushmaster ammo and brass is everywhere. It is a very nice 250 yard gun for whitetails.
The Leupold 450 Bushmaster scope matches almost perfect to 100, 200, and 250.

 

[Panda Bear]

Brent, the only thing we did on purpose was Ptarmigan and Crane. However, we did knock down a nice wood bison so we dont need anything for awhile, and had the opportunity at a nice Ram but we didn't think the curl was long enough and passed. Work, work work takes up too much of my time

Except for talking about the wrong cartridge, and the BLR, my post was right on target Thanks for the shout out.

I did have one thought/question/comment. Whitetails in Iowa must be very hard to bring down ?

 

[BrentD]

Brent, the only thing we did on purpose was Ptarmigan and Crane. However, we did knock down a nice wood bison so we dont need anything for awhile, and had the opportunity at a nice Ram but we didn't think the curl was long enough and passed. Work, work work takes up too much of my time

Except for talking about the wrong cartridge, and the BLR, my post was right on target Thanks for the shout out.

I did have one thought/question/comment. Whitetails in Iowa must be very hard to bring down ?

If only cranes and ptarmigan were on purpose, explain how you knock down a wood bison by accident! That must have been something.

Yes, our whitetails are VERY tough. A Dangerous Deer Rifle is a thing here!

 

[kylemcintyre67]

I have a new production Marlin 1895 Guide Gun. I have about 80 rounds through it at this point, and I think its a very nice rifle. I don't have any experience with the .450 so i can't give you any comparison. I will say adding a slip on limbsaver in place of the factory pad was an addition that makes shooting it a lot more pleasant.

 

[Panda Bear]

We were not hunting them, it was an opportunity harvest.

Brent see if you can find the story about the two fisherman in Alaska that had no idea a brown bear was right behind and watching them and post it for the fellows. I saw the story earlier today but can not find it now. It was a cool picture story.

my apologizes to the op, I am off to work, so will interrupt no further

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

Are you talking about .450 Marlin, or .450 Bushmaster? Ammo availability seems to favor the Bushmaster, but pales in comparison to the 45-70.

Find a deal on both a Marlin 45-70, and a .450 Bushmaster upper!

 

[midwesthunter]

The 450 bushmaster isn't going anywhere, more midwest states that didn't allow rifles are starting to allow straight case rifles. MI was the latest I know of last year. That's why almost every bolt gun manufacture makes one now.

But hunting with AR's isn't for everyone.