44 mag vs 10mm for grizzly

[rjthehunter]

Smith & Wesson has a rebate on their guns currently. I went and picked up a 10mm thanks to @Jbotto !

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Smith & Wesson has a rebate on their guns currently. I went and picked up a 10mm thanks to @Jbotto !

Where did you get it and what was the rebate? It's the M&P 2.0 10mm right?

 

[Tyglick]

10 mm. But hopefully it is used just for targets.

 

[Red-Team 98]

+1.

No handgun cartridge, regardless of size or load, is going to consistently stop really any large mammal outside of a CNS hit. Handguns punch holes at the end of the day. A 22-250 with a 55 gr bullet has ~120 ft/lbs more energy at the muzzle than Underwood's .44 mag +P 340 gr hardcast at the muzzle.

Carry what you'll practice with and actually take with you in the woods, hope you don't need it, and pray for some luck and a CNS shot if you use it.

 

[Jbotto]

Where did you get it and what was the rebate? It's the M&P 2.0 10mm right?

Yep the 10mm M&P is only available in the 2.0 version of the pistol. Rebate is $100 factory rebate.

 

[NAHMINT]

Agreed to the point of handguns killing bears and/or stopping attacks- My point above was simply to point out that handguns don't kill in the same manner as rifles (generally circulatory collapse vs hydrostatic shock), so no "magnum" makes that much of a difference, and the OP is better off choosing something he'll actually carry, practice with, and shoot well enough to get lucky. Whether that's a 9mm or a .500 Magnum, I could care less, just so long as they have a realistic understanding of the task at hand.

Here's an interesting article where they looked for verified news and book accounts of bear attacks (black, grizzly, and polar) where a known cartridge was used.

Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attacks 104 cases, 97% Effective

In the latest update on how effective pistols and handguns are when used to defend against bears, 104 documented cases show a success rate of 97%.

www.ammoland.com

For those that don't want to follow the link, there were 104 instances examined, 101 of which were "Successful". "Success" is inconsistent in the context that it doesn't mean the bear was killed, or the individual not mauled, sometimes severely, but rather that the attack ended. In the same sense, "failure" is vague, too, as it is used to reference everything from the shooter being killed, to the bear not being found dead, so there is certainly some gray area. I would also say the stats are going to be naturally skewed to "success" as dead guys and maimed individuals don't end up telling their war stories in the same light as those that are successful. "I got my ass kicked and bicep shredded, but boy do I love this new Kimber..!" doesn't have the same ring for all of us with an ego.

.22 Rimfire- 7 instances, 6 successful
.380 auto- 1 instance, 1 successful
9mm- 7 instances, 7 successful
9.3x18 Makarov- 1 instance, unknown result
.38 revolver- 3 instances, 1 successful, 1 unknown, 1 unsuccessful
.357 Magnum- 8 instances, 7 successful
.40 S&W- 4 instances, 4 successful
10mm Auto- 3 instances, 3 successful
.41 Magnum- 4 instances, 4 successful
.44-40- 2 instances, 2 successful
.44 Magnum- 30 instances, 30 successful
.45 Pistol- 9 instances, 9 successful (most are .45 Auto, 1 of the instances was a .45 LC)
.45 Super- 1 instance, 1 successful
.454 Casull- 4 instances, 4 successful
.460 S&W- 1 instance, 1 successful
.500 S&W- 1 instance, 1 successful
16 cases where the cartridge wasn't known, 15 successful

Sure beats a rock or a pointed stick !!!

 

[rjthehunter]

Where did you get it and what was the rebate? It's the M&P 2.0 10mm right?

I got it at a local Bills gun shop.

M&P 2.0 10mm with the 4.6" barrel. Just a fun gun to shoot with extremely manageable recoil!

 

[NAHMINT]

BEAR HANDGUNS= PHIL SHOEMAKER
''GRIZZLY SKINS'' GUIDE SERVICE,ALASKA.
he passed on his .357 revolver to daughter TIA.
It worked for PHIL and it worked for TIA....
e mail ''grizzly skins'' and he will tell you what you want to know......

 

[howl]

Pistols are less attractive when attackers press against you. Double action revolvers work better with the muzzle jammed into something. Why get a 10mm revolver instead of .44?

A DAO .44mag would be my choice if they made one. I'd buy a hammer shroud for my S&W 69 if it were available.

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

Whatever you do, do not by a Smith and Wesson M&P 2.0 10 mm. I bought one about a year after they released thinking they must’ve had the issues ironed out. It is by far the most unreliable and disappointing firearm or purchase in general that I’ve ever made.

 

[rjthehunter]

Whatever you do, do not by a Smith and Wesson M&P 2.0 10 mm. I bought one about a year after they released thinking they must’ve had the issues ironed out. It is by far the most unreliable and disappointing firearm or purchase in general that I’ve ever made.

Interesting. How is it disappointing or unreliable?

You're the first person I've heard from who doesn't love it. I have under 100 rounds through it, but man it's fun to shoot. No issues either.

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

Interesting. How is it disappointing or unreliable?

You're the first person I've heard from who doesn't love it. I have under 100 rounds through it, but man it's fun to shoot. No issues either.

I love the gun when it shoots and it feels great in hand which is why I bought it. Do a quick google search on smith and Wesson m&p 2.0 issues and you will see hundreds of articles and posts about issues with the gun. My gun happens to have all the issues, namely failure to feed rounds out of the bottom of magazines and when shooting hot rounds Buffalo Bore, etc. the magazine will straight up fall out of the gun. I’m so disappointed in the gun it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.

 

[rjthehunter]

I love the gun when it shoots and it feels great in hand which is why I bought it. Do a quick google search on smith and Wesson m&p 2.0 issues and you will see hundreds of articles and posts about issues with the gun. My gun happens to have all the issues, namely failure to feed rounds out of the bottom of magazines and when shooting hot rounds Buffalo Bore, etc. the magazine will straight up fall out of the gun. I’m so disappointed in the gun it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.

Have you reached out to Smith and Wesson? No idea if they'd do anything, but it'd be worth an ask!

I usually just carry solids for bears. It's hitting hard enough I don't feel the need for hot rounds or big bear specific ammo. That at least my take!

 

[Don Fischer]

yeah thinking a roll of TP should definitely accompany my bear kit cuz If that big bastard was charging me I'll likely shite myself......lol

I think the vast majority would. Something about every one of us lack, is experience shooting at close range at a dangerous animal that is attacking from that has decided to eat us. I suspect that lack is going to work as a disadvantage to us!

Video I watched on bear attacks showed a bow hunter with what they called an attack. He'd got off a shot and missed but the bear bolted and ran right over the top of the hunter. My own though was that whatever scared the bear it, had simply bolted and ran over the guy by accident. The bear hit him running and simply kept on running. Deals like this convince a lot of people how dangerous the bears are even if, as I think was the case here, there was no attack. Just some guy standing in the escape route!

 

[Don Fischer]

This, I got charged by a black bear and I never had a chance to clear leather. Luckily she ran right past me and went after my dogs.

Doesn't sound to me like you got charged. You were simply standing in the bears way to what it was charging. I suspect a real charge will start at very close range and getting out the weapon quickly would be very important. Ya want to know how to avoid a bear attack? Leave your handgun at home and pay attention to what's going on around you!

 

[Don Fischer]

In the early 90s I bought a Glock 10mm for my summer/fall sidearm, got charged by a SOW and "upgraded" to a Smith 44 which was so heavy, I rarely ever took it. Honestly, to kill a grizzly is one thing, but I bet to actually "stop" it would take a CNS hit - and in that case, it might as well just be a snub revolver or 9mm. Around 20 years ago I bought a Airlite 5 shot Smith .357. That's my tent and griz defense gun. Last time I had a griz close call, I had a .223. Boar was a carbon copy of that one in shrapnel's pick. Had it came at me (from 30 yards away), I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made it half way. Definitely felt undergunned, but had the crosshairs right between his eyes and rested on a lodgepole.
View attachment 261171

Problem with the aim at the bear between the eye's if it's a grizzly. Your actuallyu aiming at the forehead and if you look close, the grizzly forehead is sloped pretty bad. Seem's I read in 'Alaska bear Tales" where a rifle shot there would tend to glance off, bet the bear would feel it though. haven't a clue what I would aim at if attacked. Would hope at some point it would stand up and maybe get a shot at the throat or head under the chin! Till it happens if it does, I haven't a clue what I would shoot at! probably the largest spot I could see and shoot till I'm MTY!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Yeah I’ve also heard high powered rifle/handgun bullets glance off the head of a bear but that’s really total bullshit

 

[Red-Team 98]

We aim at his nose if broadside the shoulders blades to break him down.
With a handgun for defense only at close range time for just 2 to 3 shots maybe with G20. A Bear charge is very quick sometimes a false charge so shooting the bear may not occur but a shot over the head my discourage the bear…….every encounter is different. I often carry my G20 and sometimes my 629 4”. We did Bear defensive training and hazing here in Alaska. You will find me fishing and sharing the river on the Russian River and Kenai River for salmon and most of the time my G20 on my chest.

 

[Red-Team 98]

Yeah I’ve also heard high powered rifle/handgun bullets glance off the head of a bear but that’s really total bullshit

Not really depends on the angle of the shot on the bear if he holds his head a certain way a glacing shot or a shot that doesn’t enter the cavity is possible just like with humans.

 

[Red-Team 98]

Yeah I’ve also heard high powered rifle/handgun bullets glance off the head of a bear but that’s really total bullshit

Not really depends on the angle of the shot on the bear if he holds his head a certain way a glacing shot or a shot that doesn’t enter the cavity is possible just like with humans.