3 Week season for Mule Deer

[brocksw]

Having spent my entire career working in North Dakota I’m going to have to argue this. I see awesome deer every year in North Dakota. The quality of deer in North Dakota beats eastern Montana and its not even close. Even just a couple miles over the boarder you see the quality difference. Wish I still had even half the pictures of the good deer I’ve seen even in the last 5 years in North Dakota

This might be changing, or equalizing. Very anecdotal, but MT and Nd have trophy pages for everyone's grip and grins on FB. I saw alot more big mule deer come out of MT this year than I did ND. Even when trying to account for the fact that MT has 10x more habitat in terms of surface acres.

 

[brockel]

This might be changing, or equalizing. Very anecdotal, but MT and Nd have trophy pages for everyone's grip and grins on FB. I saw alot more big mule deer come out of MT this year than I did ND. Even when trying to account for the fact that MT has 10x more habitat in terms of surface acres.

Opposite for me. I’ve seen some giants come out on those North Dakota pages. Haven’t seen much for mule deer on the Montana pages that I’d squeeze the trigger on. I can think of only a couple on the Montana pages.

 

[JLS]

They aren't, they're just a step behind MT. Both Idaho and WY residents have pushed for changing quotas, limiting NR tags. Idaho has seen huge increases in tag sales in recent history, like record setting years by 50k. WY lacks the population and I would guess has more habitat per resident. Everything is heading towards limited draw for residents and non residents and if we keep improving the pump with out improving the well, it will just happen faster.

Thanks for ‘splainin’ that to me.

 

[brocksw]

Opposite for me. I’ve seen some giants come out on those North Dakota pages. Haven’t seen much for mule deer on the Montana pages that I’d squeeze the trigger on. I can think of only a couple on the Montana pages.

I think ND has had some real good years here and there, usually weather events trigger changes, like anywhere. But we've been on a decline in quality since 2018ish maybe a bit earlier and this drought doesn't help.

We have an advantage though. We don't have the drama in ND around our Game and fish. They do a pretty good job overall. They ain't perfect but I should really have zero complaints given circumstances. They listen, they talk to us, they're transparent and responsive. We get a bad weather event, bios go to work and make a recommendation to cut rifle tags, because they tell us that is the great equalizer. That in 1 fall we can make significant progress in growing or shrinking the population using rifle hunters. Up to 80% success rates.

 

[brocksw]

Thanks for ‘splainin’ that to me.

I dunno maybe I didn't and you're being smart.

Is it not undeniable that opportunity per hunter is going to reach a peak and it will start diminishing? Shit we spent an entire thread about it for WY when buzz wanted his 20th resident tag or whatever it was. Haha

 

[8andcounting]

I think ND has had some real good years here and there, usually weather events trigger changes, like anywhere. But we've been on a decline in quality since 2018ish maybe a bit earlier and this drought doesn't help.

We have an advantage though. We don't have the drama in ND around our Game and fish. They do a pretty good job overall. They ain't perfect but I should really have zero complaints given circumstances. They listen, they talk to us, they're transparent and responsive. We get a bad weather event, bios go to work and make a recommendation to cut rifle tags, because they tell us that is the great equalizer. That in 1 fall we can make significant progress in growing or shrinking the population using rifle hunters. Up to 80% success rates.

It will be really interesting to see what the ND G&F does with rifle tags this spring after more detected cwd, the EHD die off last fall and a pretty Brutal winter . Going to be HARD cuts in a lot of units

 

[brockel]

It will be really interesting to see what the ND G&F does with rifle tags this spring after more detected cwd, the EHD die off last fall and a pretty Brutal winter . Going to be HARD cuts in a lot of units

It’s nice they actually manage it. Montana will be business as usual and we had a bad die off from EHD on the whitetail

 

[Saveyhunter]

Shortening the season will do absolutely nothing. SD did a similar thing with Antelope about 10 years ago. They had two separate seasons in the unit I hunted and it was great. Hunters had a great experience being spread out and not on top of each other and the goats had a fair chance. We would see a hundred goats a day during the second season and have a blast spotting and stalking one we wanted to go after. Then they changed it to one shortened season and absolutely ruined it all!!!! The last time I went, I saw 2 antelope on public ground and Hunter Orange everywhere! Not my idea definition of a good hunt. Talked to the game warden and he said antelope didn’t have a chance to escape and were mowed down before they could get out of the valleys. This will be the same. More hunters on top of each other which I find super annoying and I’m guessing you all do too! Deer will have less of a chance to escape, which in my eyes means even more deer are going to get shot and won’t reach maturity because they’re surrounded. I don’t think this is going to accomplish what some of you think it’s going to. I’d be careful what you wish for.

 

[8andcounting]

It’s nice they actually manage it. Montana will be business as usual and we had a bad die off from EHD on the whitetail

Agree but Montana and Nd Is apples to oranges . But yes - I think mostly our GF department does a decent job

 

[brockel]

Shortening the season will do absolutely nothing. SD did a similar thing with Antelope about 10 years ago. They had two separate seasons in the unit I hunted and it was great. Hunters had a great experience being spread out and not on top of each other and the goats had a fair chance. We would see a hundred goats a day during the second season and have a blast spotting and stalking one we wanted to go after. Then they changed it to one shortened season and absolutely ruined it all!!!! The last time I went, I saw 2 antelope on public ground and Hunter Orange everywhere! Not my idea definition of a good hunt. Talked to the game warden and he said antelope didn’t have a chance to escape and were mowed down before they could get out of the valleys. This will be the same. More hunters on top of each other which I find super annoying and I’m guessing you all do too! Deer will have less of a chance to escape, which in my eyes means even more deer are going to get shot and won’t reach maturity because they’re surrounded. I don’t think this is going to accomplish what some of you think it’s going to. I’d be careful what you wish for.

A young rut dumb mule deer has little chance during rifle season so not much of a chance of escape. Why do you think 90% of Montana’s mule deer bucks are taken from second week in November to turkey day? Pretty easy for most to drive the county roads and catch a buck out cruising. Get in front of him and shoot him 90% was a made up number by the way. Probably closer to 95%

 

[mtmiller]

Shortening the season will do absolutely nothing. SD did a similar thing with Antelope about 10 years ago. They had two separate seasons in the unit I hunted and it was great. Hunters had a great experience being spread out and not on top of each other and the goats had a fair chance. We would see a hundred goats a day during the second season and have a blast spotting and stalking one we wanted to go after. Then they changed it to one shortened season and absolutely ruined it all!!!! The last time I went, I saw 2 antelope on public ground and Hunter Orange everywhere! Not my idea definition of a good hunt. Talked to the game warden and he said antelope didn’t have a chance to escape and were mowed down before they could get out of the valleys. This will be the same. More hunters on top of each other which I find super annoying and I’m guessing you all do too! Deer will have less of a chance to escape, which in my eyes means even more deer are going to get shot and won’t reach maturity because they’re surrounded. I don’t think this is going to accomplish what some of you think it’s going to. I’d be careful what you wish for.

Something else happened "about 10 years ago".

 

[Saveyhunter]

Something else happened "about 10 years ago".
View attachment 211339

That was mortality in Harding County. Not where I was.

 

[mtmiller]

Guess they labeled it wrong?

 

[teamhoyt]

A young rut dumb mule deer has little chance during rifle season so not much of a chance of escape. Why do you think 90% of Montana’s mule deer bucks are taken from second week in November to turkey day? Pretty easy for most to drive the county roads and catch a buck out cruising. Get in front of him and shoot him 90% was a made up number by the way. Probably closer to 95%

Do you beleive that less of these young bucks will get killed in a season if the season was shorter or during a different time period? At the end of the day I think the same number of deer will be shot in a given year. Could very well be that more of the young deer are killed as hunters may not feel they have as much time to wait for something better coupled with the fact that one would likely perceive more people in the woods on a given day.

 

[brocksw]

It will be really interesting to see what the ND G&F does with rifle tags this spring after more detected cwd, the EHD die off last fall and a pretty Brutal winter . Going to be HARD cuts in a lot of units

Hard to believe there won't be some cuts. Not sure how much they'll cut mule deer though.

If it's cut enough I'm sure we'll get another bump in archery numbers. A change there will be next.

 

[bigsky2]

Do you beleive that less of these young bucks will get killed in a season if the season was shorter or during a different time period? At the end of the day I think the same number of deer will be shot in a given year. Could very well be that more of the young deer are killed as hunters may not feel they have as much time to wait for something better coupled with the fact that one would likely perceive more people in the woods on a given day.

Yes. The rut pulls bucks out of the wood works. Without the advantage of the rut, it’s more likely that people actually have to work to get their buck. Especially in places where you’ve got ag fields with a good food source, if there’s a bunch of does hitting the fields its a constant parade of bucks going to the does throughout those last couple weeks of the season.

 

[JLS]

Do you beleive that less of these young bucks will get killed in a season if the season was shorter or during a different time period?

Depends on escapement. For the most part, yes.

At the end of the day I think the same number of deer will be shot in a given year.

We’re all free to think what we want, but I fail to see how timing and duration of the season wouldn’t affect harvest totals.

 

[JLS]

When folks want to argue that shortening seasons and moving rifle hunting outside of the rut WONT create better deer escapement and as a result, better age classes of deer, don’t know what else there is to discuss.

Carry on.

 

[MTGomer]

I’ve seen more big (170+) deer in 3 years of driving a side by side through the oilfield in ND than I’ve seen in Montana in my whole life.

 

[rogerthat]

Just a couple of years ago mule deer in the part of region 7 that our biologist manage were at an all time high. In 2012 these numbers were very low after the bad winter. In 2020 there were 12000 additional muley doe tags issued due to the high numbers of deer. In 2021 it was less doe tags. Montana has had this hunt structure for years, the population was as high as its ever been a couple years ago over here.

So the herd numbers are obviously not affected by the current season structure to the point everyone thinks. Are there going to be less people with tags if the season was only 3 weeks and in October, no. Are there going to be less deer killed if the season was shorter and in October, probably not by much. Are we magically going to have 170 inch deer everywhere if we change the season, no. ND right next door has all rifle tags limited quota, do they have a bunch more big deer than we do, no. Wyoming has most of the state with short week or 2 long hunts, and a million people pounding the woods in that week or 2. Do they have a bunch of big deer because of it, no.

Montana isnt the AZ strip folks. Most 4+ year old deer in Montana are never going to be 170 inch deer if they die of old age. Its just the way it is.

Now to clarify a few things.
I like to hunt big bucks
I dont have any problem with a shorter season and no rut.
I realize im speaking of a small part of region 7 and its a big state, other areas im sure have issues
Of course id like to see more big deer.

Im writing this to say to think about the future and be careful what you wish for. Shorter season lengths equal more people in the field at a time. And there might be another 3 or 4 of them 150 and 160 inch 5 year old deer/100 does on the lanscape but by changing the regs i would argue that there are not going to be any more 200 inch deer running around than there are right now.

Your wrong bottom line. I have sent in a bunch of teeth for lab aging. We have the genetics! We have the feed! We don’t have the age class! Bottom line! Sorry but your wrong. Do all deer turn into big deer? Nope. But the 180 3 year olds will never be 200 if they are killed. Just saying. Go hunt some other states. It will open your eyes. Send their teeth in to Matsons