??? $3,000.00 for a lion hunt WHY

[Tobey]

First of I am not starting any fights or saying anything bad about any one.I am just trying to get to the bottom of why a lion is worth $3,000.00 for a 7 day hunt.If you can get it then great.I can't believe you have any more invested in a lion hunt than I do a bear hunt.I would get laughed out of the state if I tried to get $2,000.00 and throw in a guaranty of over 400# B+C bear.
You lion hunters if you could run bears with dogs what would your price be for a 7 day hunt?

 

[Bear Creek Adventures]

Tobey,

I don't charge the way most outfitters do. I charge $200.00 per day of hunting and a kill fee of $1,500.00 for lion. For bear I charge $200.00 per day and a kill fee of $1,000.00.
The reason I charge more for a lion hunt is because they are so much harder to find than bears. Of course if you do find a fresh track, a lion will tree much easier than a bear, but just finding a good lion track to run can be hard.

I like charging my hunts by using the "Kill fee" meathod because I have enough confidence in my dogs and in my ability to "put my money where my mouth is." If the hunter does not see game in the tree, I don't get paid the kill fee. I think it is a fair way of doing it.

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"The worst advice you can give a person with a sour attitude is to be himself"
[email protected]

 

[George P]

BCA, I used to charge the same way for a bear hunt.150 a day and then 500 on a kill.I stopped that last year except on fill ins .Like when i had a hunter and he tagged out and I brought someone else in for the remainder of the week.I will tell you why I stopped doing that last year.
I had a couple hunters that couldnt make it to the trees.Now ,I am certainly not money hungry,as you can tell from my prices.It did bug me a little though to have to do evrything but kill the bear and not get the kill fee. I walked away from the trees thinking "there goes my money" while someone waited in the truck. In the last 2 years I have also had 2 hunters guns not go off at the tree.I know that sounds crazy but it did happen to me ,TWICE!! Both times we got the bears with the hunters useing my handgun but what if we hadnt ?
It certainly is a good deal for the hunter though.One other problem I had with by the day and on the kill pays.I would book a hunter for 3 days or so at a time.I only charged them for the days they hunted.Most of my hunters killed bears on the first day.I should have thought ahead and charged them for the days they booked not just the days they hunted,my mistake.It was OK if I had an on call hunter lined up but when I didnt I would sit around waiting for the next guy to show up.
If it works for you BCA I would stay with it.I think it is very attractive to clients.Maybe I just didnt think ahead enough or do it right.

 

[Bear Creek Adventures]

George,

You make some very good points. Fortunately, I have not had to deal with that problem, but I can see where it would be a hassle. I generally use horses for my hunts, maybe that is why I have not run into that. Of course, I don't take too many bear and lion hunters either. If these hunts were a bigger part of my overall business, I think I might change to the other way of charging. Good points!

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"The worst advice you can give a person with a sour attitude is to be himself"
[email protected]

 

[bcat]

Tobey-Fortunately I am not the only one in Wyoming getting 3000 bucks for a lion hunt. There are a few cheaper and sevaral "illegal" outfitters that only get 1500 bucks or so for a lion, but then ya have to deal with Lacey act violations id ya get caught. I know for a fact it costs us a heck of alot more than it does you to stay in the business here. It costs more to do the hunting, with gas, wear and tear, snowmobiles for some terrain, horses for other terrain, etc. More for insurance licences permits etc. I have never had any trouble booking all the lion hunts I could handle. I have been tied down on the ranch more the last two years because my mother has been ill and her husband was ill with cancer and finally died last winter. She has always been able to feed the cows and do the little things around here while I hunted with clients until last year and this year. I only booked two lion hunters for last year, (2000), for that reason. The year before i only booked two and killed two big toms. One of my hunters this year wasnt in any hurry, mater of fact has had his hunt booked for two years, and we will go next winter. Thumper will be back, and we will find him the lion he wants. We only killed one lion thsi winter and it was my 17 year old sons first lion, so thats the scoop. Now ya know the rest of the story. We have had as many as 8 hunters a year (november and Dec) and filled them all. At 3000 grand it is still not a money maker believe it or not. We feed the hunters the best of food and if they stay in a motel its the best in town. We go first class and it only costs a little more to go first class. Our trucks dont break down while hunting, we have nice snowmachines and nice horses and six wheelers when needed. I have NEVER had ANYONE gripe about our prices or service, and have never failed to yeild a huge tip!!!! So I guess I might say ya get what ya pay for in this case. Not bragging at all, just explianing how it has worked for us. Hope ya dont take it as bragging because I am not at all. I have hunted as long as 30 days for one client and one for 18 days, before connecting with what they wanted at no extra charge, so you could say in a way it is a guaranteed hunt. If they are sportsman and real people, I will hunt for them till they get what they want or say uncle!!!!! And not charge an extra dime. It has worked so far, and I aint changing it for no body. I try to scrren my hunters fairly well to weed out the troublemakers and that has worked well to so far. Call it what ya want but it works.

bcat

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If you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Boykin's Hunting Homepage
HuntAndLodge.com
www.recworld.com/boykin

[This message has been edited by bcat (edited 03-21-2001).]

 

[Horn Seeker]

Its simple, there are fewer lions than bears in the country. Just like a guided big horn hunt is going to cost more than a Trophy elk hunt, even though the big horn hunt may be the easiest thing you've done in years.

 

[hntrjohn]

Come on, High school econ. class, SUPY AND DEMAND.

John

 

[Thumper]

This sorta reminds me of the topic back aways " The rich greedy guides"

As you may or may not know, I have hunted with approximately 14 guides in my life. I have seen what they put into a hunt,time, money and effort wise.

I had to ask B'cat this year "How the hell are you going to make out on this hunt" The way I figure,
Not counting wear and tear on equipment from the client

You got to count in food, lodging, fuel for snow machines, diesel for trucks, hound / horse feed all year, vet bills ,time of the outfitter hunting and picking up or dropping off at the pick up point, insurance for the equipment and the operation.
Hell, I am sure that we would burn $60 or more a day on fuel alone! (I will not talk about drinks provided back at base camp, as I figure a fifth of scotch a day at $15 a bottle x 9 days = A drunk as a hunter)

Folks who do not or have not hunted with outfitters do not understand these cost that the outfitter pays when he is putting you on a hunt!
Then there is the time involved! How much is the guide actually making per day once he has included all his expenses? I would guess to venture not a hell of a great amount! I see it as a labour of love!
I am sure if you look around, you will find hunts as low as $1800, I found these to be mom and pop or shoe string operations! Then I have saw hunts for $3000 plus a kill fee!

I think $2500 to $3000 is the norm for a good quality hunt!

Just putting in my comments for ALL of the outfitters out there!

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IF YA CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DAWGS, KEEP YOUR ARSE ON THE PORCH

http://www.geocities.com/thumper_67.geo

 

[Tobey]

OK I get the picture I have talked to other lion hunters in other states and Canada where there is no shortage of lions (YET)and they get the same prices.Sort of like Bass fishing We can only get $150.00 pr day guiding fishing and we stop and cook lunch over a open fire for our cliants.Other states you will pay $250 per day per person and you better bring your lunch.
Bcat I would love to sit down some time and compare numbers with you on cost of hunts I bet I have as much overhead as you do.I don't have horses to feed But I go through 6 ton of charger a season feeding bears.and 3 trucks that average 10,000 miles a season baiting and hunting,That's allot of gas.plus insurance, Bait sites, permits,Land use fees,
It never ends.We just got notification that our bait sites are going up another $25 this year each.We maintain 40 sites

[This message has been edited by Tobey (edited 03-12-2001).]

 

[bcat]

Tobey-I didnt say you werent a quality outfitter. I said you do a quantity of hunters. With 40 baits and four guides, you must kill alot of bears in a season. I have sent clients with a guide before, but very seldom. I think you read something into my post that simply isnt there. If we did "QUANTITY", it would still be "Quality", so I hope ya understand what I meant now. Maybe you are only a guide and they dont classify you as an outfitter. I dont know how they do it back east. I suppose if I ran 20 hunters a year thru here and hired guides to do it, the money would still work out the same. Ya got to pay the guides. Bears can be taken over bait in Canada for 750 bucks and you can kill two bears. I suppose that would keep the bear hunting price down some. I hope ya understand what I was getting at, and not getting on you about being a shady outfiter or guide or whatever they call ya there. Wish we could hunt bears with Daogs in Wyoming. I sent a fella you guys way a week or two ago did he book a hunt with ya? bcat

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If you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Boykin's Hunting Homepage
HuntAndLodge.com
www.recworld.com/boykin

 

[cat chaser]

well I guess the old saying you get what you pay for says it all. I just got back from taken a guy on a great hunt. he got a large lion 150# around 15 5/8" skull. he said he went twice in 2 years with fly by night outfitters with ridgerunner dogs and got ZERO. It cost him over 4000 to go twice. He spent $3500 with me and will never have to pay again. I bet you he wishes he would have just bellyed up and paid me in the first place. As far as miles on a truck I have put 50,000 miles on two trucks in 4 1/2 months. out west we drive a lot of miles every day day in and day out. So I think if you have great dogs and staff and give the best hunt posible you should get a good price. It is like drinking bad beer or coors they both get you drunk but which would you rather drink?

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when the tailgate drops the bullshit stops.

 

[bcat]

Catchaser-Good to se ya back around here again. I couldnt agree with ya more. I too have taken people that have ben on other hunts unsucessfully and have paid alot of money doing it. We used to do it for 2500 bucks, and simply couldnt justify losing money doing it anymore. We run alot of miles up here too, and you and I both know the other expenses involved. If I could do it cheaper I would, but it only costs a little more to go first class. Sounds like a great lion the fella got. Do ya have the pictures developed yet? bcat

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If you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes

Boykin's Hunting Homepage
HuntAndLodge.com
www.recworld.com/boykin

 

[Tobey]

Cat Chaser
Glad to see you posting.Just curios But how do you find time to hunt? 50,000 miles in 4 1/2 months at 50 mph works out to approximately 8 hr of driving per day.Or is that the total of both trucks and 2 people driving.I do agree you get what you pay for.I just wish bear hunts could bring as much as a lion hunt.But I know it will never happen.
And I would rather drink a Budwiser!!!!!!!

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We having fun yet//Tobey

[This message has been edited by Tobey (edited 03-16-2001).]

 

[Miller27]

You guys aren't suggesting that Coors and Bud are quality beers, are you? I'd rather drink a bottle of cover scent than that stuff. You haven't lived 'til you've had some (about 14 ounces-cuz that's all it takes!) of my homemade hard cider. I made a 48 gallon batch in late Sept. and she's-a-ready. Mmmm, Mmmm good.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Gee, I was expecting you to say that it was "Miller Time!"

 

[George P]

Catchaser, I dont agree that you always get what you pay for. I have had several hunters in the last couple years that hunted with big name outfitters and paid big prices and werent pleased.I took these same hunters out for about half the cost they had paid the big name guys.ALL of them can tell you what great times they had with me ,for way less money.
If you look at the bear pics I posted below the first one is a case in point.Awesome exciting hunt,real nice bear,(he had it full mounted), for $650 plus a $100 tip.He has referred several people to me.He had hunted with a big priced outfitter the year before.No bear and not even good hunts.Poor dogs and poor equipment from what he told me. I will post some more bear pics later that people paid similar money for.

 

[cat chaser]

tobey to answer youre we somtimes drive 3 to 4 hours befor it gets daylight. with two trucks we drive everyday for sometimes 14 hours a day. It is good to be back we have been doing some serious hunting with all our snow. the lion totel this year is 14 to date. it has been a good year so far.

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when the tailgate drops the bullshit stops.