Bigjay73
Well-known member
Any idea how this year will go? Did many people cash out, are people over spending the extra dough for the special? What's your prediction? I think it will be status quo point creep
2025 Wy draw
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WapitiBob
Well-known member
I'm still waiting for the massive downturn in apps due to a bad economy (twice), covid, price increases, 90/10, and who knows how many other "guaranteed" reasons.
WildWill
Well-known member
Yep always laugh when I hear "eventually it'll level off" or "can't keep going like it is". Yet every year it's worse unless you triple the cost of the tag like Wyoming pronghorn special. I have a feeling it won't take long for points required to draw in the special catches back up to post price increase levels.
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
I'm always more curious about those that have a lot of points and don't apply, but just buy another point. The group point average theory is interesting and explains some but certainly not all of it.
Nick87
Well-known member
I fall in that boat a lot of the time. I don't have the pto that some do. So if I know I'm likely to draw a different tag I'm only buying a point. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that camp.
QuazyQuinton
Well-known member
I started buying points at the same time my kids were young and starting with mentored and youth hunts here in Oregon. I knew I would focus on their hunts for the next few years and look to cash my points once they were older. My youngest is now in his last year of youth hunts, so look out world, here I come!
Bullshot
Well-known member
I drew a tag in 23, bought a point last year out of habit and now have only 1 pp. I am unsure whether I should bother to accumulate antelope points in WY from this level -vs- every now and then just tossing in for a random chance if my schedule would work. Maybe I’ll get a couple more buck tags in my life if lucky. And I’m not sure if points will even alter that much for me. Spending special money does up some of the odds, but probably is already at the point of being not financially worth it. Will it ever get better? NO. Regular random draw odds are going to perpetually continue down as a result of all this increased demand, tag cuts, point creep, and skyrocketing special cost. I think the only thing that might help (a little) is if waiting periods, or “choose your species” is the next shoe to drop in more places.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Of all the species, pronghorn could be the one species that may increase in numbers in a relatively short time frame.
If you're thinking choose your species or waiting periods are going to happen, you may as well ditch that point you have and buy a bowling ball, knitting needles, or a set of golf clubs.
Nick87
Well-known member
Can you elaborate on that?
npaden
Well-known member
A few good winters back to back and the pronghorn numbers should rebound pretty well. This is kind of a bubble I think with a combination of increased demand for pronghorn tags combined with the terrible winters from a few years back. Quotas in a lot of units are about half of what they have been historically. You bump those back up to what they were in 2018 and 2019 and you are going to move through a bunch of point holders especially in the low to medium tier units. The top units might not clear out as quickly with people sitting on the sidelines jumping in but the 2 to 5 point units from 5 years ago that are 6 to 10 points might move back down a bit. My thoughts anyway.
BuzzH
Well-known member
No, there's a lot more going on with pronghorn than bad winters, unfortunately.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yes, npaden isn't completely wrong, but not completely right either.
People tend to live in the very recent past, or about 2 days into the future...I'm guilty of it too sometimes.
But, I've been fortunate to see pronghorn numbers in WY when they were what I felt at the time very good. When I first moved here in 2001, the number of pronghorn was staggering looking back. Tag numbers were really high to reflect the high numbers of pronghorn. One unit I hunted a lot when I first moved here, and have started hunting again recently, the tag numbers are about 1/2 of what they were. I question if we should even be issuing that many tags.
Since I first moved here its been a pretty steady decline statewide.
But, going back even further, and fortunately @JM77 has kept all the old hunting orders/regs since the late 70's this decline has been going on longer than even I've been here. In one particular unit that Jeff is very familiar with the tag number have dropped from, IIRC, 1200 to 75 since the late 70's-early 80's to now. Couple things to note there, is that a bad weather bump here and there isn't going to fluctuate tags from 1200 to 75 with essentially steady declines for 45+ years.
I also just don't see the herds recovering very fast even with 3-4-5 years of relatively mild winters, some recovery certainly, but not what you would expect.
The mistake I think is being made with regard to pronghorn, and other management, nobody really wants to dig into the past. They're too busy thinking they have it all figured out living in the current, or only what THEY have seen since becoming a biologist. That's dangerous in my opinion.
I had it happen last year, a warden I ran into on a friends hunt was trying to tell me how great the pronghorn were "recovering" in the unit we were hunting. My ass. For starters, the bad winter was only 2 years ago, simple biology combined with basic 3rd grade math will tell you that its impossible. The first fawns born after the bad winter where you lost 70% of your adult does, will just be having fawns of their own this spring. Not to mention that warden had only been assigned to that unit recently. I asked him if he remembered what it was like 4-5 years ago, he never had been out there until very recently. I can say for certain, maybe 40-50% of what it was 4-5 years ago (this particular unit faired better than some further east).
Its not his fault, but he simply didn't know what he didn't know. The same as I didn't know what pronghorn hunting was like and tag numbers were like in the late 70's-80's in Jeff's area.
The major difference is, I didn't get annoyed when Jeff pointed that out to me, like the warden did when I pointed out a few facts to him.
Its not good to dwell in the past, but if I were a biologist I'd be looking at trends going back 40-50 years, correlating with any habitat, climate, predator numbers, development, yada yada to try to figure out why just 45 years ago a unit had 1200 tags issued, and now we're issuing 75. Because to me, that's pretty alarming and it ain't a bad winter causing that.
I'm hopeful that @brocksw and his new group would be willing to talk with Jeff and I about this downward spiral pronghorn seem to be on.
Anyway, I probably spend way too much time worrying and thinking about this kind of shit because nobody else seems to be worried about anything but their drawing odds.
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brocksw
Well-known member
@buzz and I have already had a brief discussion about some pronghorn related things in Wyoming. I can assure you there will be more discussions as time progresses.
We are also in contact with a number of Wyoming stakeholders in regards to Pronghorn projects and funding opportunities, both for fencing and research projects. But I can’t share details at this stage.
Nevada is another state we are in contact with about specific funding opportunities.
We are also in contact with a number of Wyoming stakeholders in regards to Pronghorn projects and funding opportunities, both for fencing and research projects. But I can’t share details at this stage.
Nevada is another state we are in contact with about specific funding opportunities.
Kiwi
Well-known member
I’ve had 3 great pronghorn hunts in the same WY unit and think thats probably me done.
I don’t have points but might try my luck in the standard random draw and see if I can fluke another tag like last year.
I don’t have points but might try my luck in the standard random draw and see if I can fluke another tag like last year.
JM77
Well-known member
What better use for this statute than an organization specifically dedicated to pronghorn, unlike the two organizations that currently benefit from it. In other words an antelope hunt event to benefit only pronghorn. Obviously, a pronghorn dedicated organization would not abuse this privilege by taking too many tags as to affect antelope in herd units they would be used. Let's say 10 licenses to facilitate a successful money raising event with specific projects benefiting Wyoming pronghorn herds.
@BuzzH @brocksw
Chapter 44 Wyoming G&F regulation states:
Statutes provide for up to one hundred sixty (160) licenses to be available for up to two (2) antelope hunt events each year. These licenses shall be issued above quotas established for the hunt area(s) and shall be allocated to residents and nonresidents, taking into consideration resource management requirements as designated by the Wildlife Division.These licenses are exempt from the provisions in this Chapter limiting the number of big game licenses an individual may obtain in one (1) calendar year. Applications shall be reviewed by the Department and brought before the Commission for final approval and selection. The Commission may designate an organization to receive antelope hunt event licenses for up to three (3) consecutive hunting seasons before requiring the organization to reapply. Applications for any future antelope hunt event licenses shall be accepted as advertised by the Department.
(I) An application for an antelope hunt event shall be submitted on a form provided by the Department and shall specify:
(1.) The name of the organization;
(2.) The organization’s history, background and mission;
(3.) The number of antelope licenses requested by individual hunt area and type;
(4.) The number of consecutive years antelope hunt event licenses are being requested; and
(5.) The organization’s financial plan to benefit wildlife,conservation and the community with funds raised from the antelope hunt event.
(II) The Commission may revoke an organization’s opportunity to receive antelope hunt event licenses if any information provided on their application is incorrect or is no longer valid.
@BuzzH @brocksw
Chapter 44 Wyoming G&F regulation states:
Statutes provide for up to one hundred sixty (160) licenses to be available for up to two (2) antelope hunt events each year. These licenses shall be issued above quotas established for the hunt area(s) and shall be allocated to residents and nonresidents, taking into consideration resource management requirements as designated by the Wildlife Division.These licenses are exempt from the provisions in this Chapter limiting the number of big game licenses an individual may obtain in one (1) calendar year. Applications shall be reviewed by the Department and brought before the Commission for final approval and selection. The Commission may designate an organization to receive antelope hunt event licenses for up to three (3) consecutive hunting seasons before requiring the organization to reapply. Applications for any future antelope hunt event licenses shall be accepted as advertised by the Department.
(I) An application for an antelope hunt event shall be submitted on a form provided by the Department and shall specify:
(1.) The name of the organization;
(2.) The organization’s history, background and mission;
(3.) The number of antelope licenses requested by individual hunt area and type;
(4.) The number of consecutive years antelope hunt event licenses are being requested; and
(5.) The organization’s financial plan to benefit wildlife,conservation and the community with funds raised from the antelope hunt event.
(II) The Commission may revoke an organization’s opportunity to receive antelope hunt event licenses if any information provided on their application is incorrect or is no longer valid.
I burned 11 points last year and was happy with the hunt I had except I just wish I’d had more time. Buck quality wasn’t amazing but plenty of critters and some great scenery
I can’t wait to go back and doubt I ever bank that many points again. I’ll probably be putting in for the unit I drew last year hoping for a random tag for a few years and then look to burn any points when schedule works and I just know I really want to go
I can’t wait to go back and doubt I ever bank that many points again. I’ll probably be putting in for the unit I drew last year hoping for a random tag for a few years and then look to burn any points when schedule works and I just know I really want to go
brocksw
Well-known member
160 tags?! That seems like a bit much.
I have a feeling this will be a subject of conversation with you and/or Buzz before NAPF were to go down this road.
Thanks for posting that info.
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