$1,149.84

[8andcounting]

Good posts randy you have a great point . My trouble is I live in a state (ND) that a person has to make those same type of sacrifices, except obviously we aren't the outdoor paradise that MT is . I love ND and won't ever leave but it's not MT

 

[Addicting]

At first, Mrs. Fin kept a running total until it quickly surpassed $100K, at which time the point was well made. And it hopefully illustrates the level of commitment many folks make toward this lifestyle, a lifestyle greatly enhanced by large public landscapes and tireless conservation efforts. I remember Mrs. Fin almost pushing me out the door a few times for public meeting about hunting, fishing, and access, with her parting remarks of, "We didn't move here and make such a large financial sacrifice (she calls it an investment) to see this stuff go away. Get your butt down to that meeting and give them an earful."

As polite and modest as she is, when you mess with hunting, fishing, public access, you get to see an entirely different side of her. Her unwavering commitment to those principles gives some insight as to why she is equally committed to our advocacy platforms. Yes, I've far outkicked my coverage.

Do you ever wonder if MRS Fin is writing these post to remind MR Fin when he sees it that she hasn’t forgotten how much time he is going to owe her walleye fishing this summer!

 

[rustneversleeps]

This is exactly why I made changes in my life so I could live and work here - hate to say it but I am glad it takes a sacrifice and commitment as a non-resident to hunt here. If tags were cheap and easy to get residents would be even more of a minority come hunting season.

 

[hank4elk]

I was making twice what I could get doing same job here, lol.
No comparisons close to price of property.Night & day.
My hunt bill so far for this year is $170 for elk & deer.
About what keeping a maybe someday chance in UT for a yr.would have cost.

But even BF said Ms BF loved it here,but no way she would live here. Too remote he said was the term.

 

[shoots-straight]

At first, Mrs. Fin kept a running total until it quickly surpassed $100K, at which time the point was well made. And it hopefully illustrates the level of commitment many folks make toward this lifestyle, a lifestyle greatly enhanced by large public landscapes and tireless conservation efforts. I remember Mrs. Fin almost pushing me out the door a few times for public meeting about hunting, fishing, and access, with her parting remarks of, "We didn't move here and make such a large financial sacrifice (she calls it an investment) to see this stuff go away. Get your butt down to that meeting and give them an earful."

As polite and modest as she is, when you mess with hunting, fishing, public access, you get to see an entirely different side of her. Her unwavering commitment to those principles gives some insight as to why she is equally committed to our advocacy platforms. Yes, I've far outkicked my coverage.

I'd like you to thank Mrs. Fin for me, for her efforts in "Pushing you out the door". Shes made a big impact.

 

[dcopas78]

If it wasn't for family here in Ohio, I'd almost certainly be out there. My mom and dad would be right behind me. My wife's mom and dad wouldn't leave, and we have the only grandson that they get to spend time with. Money wouldn't hold me back, though.
My goal is to retire out west, and find me some place to call my own. The most important thing is my wife is entirely on board.

 

[Southern Elk]

At first, Mrs. Fin kept a running total until it quickly surpassed $100K, at which time the point was well made. And it hopefully illustrates the level of commitment many folks make toward this lifestyle, a lifestyle greatly enhanced by large public landscapes and tireless conservation efforts. I remember Mrs. Fin almost pushing me out the door a few times for public meeting about hunting, fishing, and access, with her parting remarks of, "We didn't move here and make such a large financial sacrifice (she calls it an investment) to see this stuff go away. Get your butt down to that meeting and give them an earful."

As polite and modest as she is, when you mess with hunting, fishing, public access, you get to see an entirely different side of her. Her unwavering commitment to those principles gives some insight as to why she is equally committed to our advocacy platforms. Yes, I've far outkicked my coverage.

You are a lucky man, but I'm sure you already know that. I'm just glad my wife doesn't keep a running total. I was working on taxes last week and even I was shocked at how different they looked this year. I'm not going to share that info with her unless she asks.

 

[Nameless Range]

I wish it was different and that price was not a hurdle for many non-residents. Reality is, price is a hurdle, always has been and it probably always will be. I noticed that pain in 1989 when I started looking around at hunting in other states. Now, 30 years later, what the original post mentioned is still the case.

I know some may not like it when I put it this way, and it is in no way trying to discount that hunting out of state costs money. Yet, as expensive as it is to pay non-resident fees, I hope it is understood that most folks who are residents of these western states pay even more for their resident hunting opportunities, albeit in the form of opportunity costs. And I don't know many of them, myself included, who would move for higher paying positions in states with less hunting opportunity.

Here is an example of what I have paid for the privilege of being a resident of Montana and the great hunting and fishing opportunities that come with that residency, at great cost to wealth building. When I moved to Montana in 1991 to become a resident and all it has to offer, my wife was making $40K. She took a job in Bozeman for $14K, a bit over $2,000 per month for us to have resident hunting and fishing opportunities we desired. I won't even add what my hit was in leaving a great position with great potential at a national CPA firm to work for a small four-person CPA firm here in Bozeman.

I'm just one of thousands who have made that choice. I know many folks who turn down high paying jobs in other areas to stay in places like MT, WY, ID, etc. And yes, those are all personal decisions we make and we don't expect anyone to feel our pain. We would gladly do it again. Hopefully it gives some perspective of what a resident pays for hunting/fishing privileges when both cash and opportunity costs are considered.

When you take those huge pay disparities with really no reduction in cost of living, use even the lowest rates when determining the time value of money, over the life of working careers, what my wife and I have paid to be Montana residents is well over $2 million. And that is probably not much different for most others who have moved here, or elected to stay here and decline higher paying jobs elsewhere.

Again, not trying to discount the financial hurdles of hunting out of state. We all pay for that privilege one way or another. I hope you have a great hunt and I hope you are able to continue with these hunts until you "run out of health."

That's an interesting way to put it Fin. The part I bolded is something I have spoken to my wife about. When we were just starting out, we had the opportunity to leave MT for well over twice the money on her salary in southern CA. I could've likely found a job in my career for far more than what I make here as well. We often talk about different scenarios and I don't say this to apply to others, only us personally, but I don't say it in jest:

If you offered us 5 times what me make now to leave MT for only a year, we wouldn't do it. Life is too short. Tomorrow is not guaranteed, and in a very real way life in the west and all that comes with it, provides thoughts and experiences almost daily that are worth years of life, and in many instances, a lifetime. The thought of missing them, even for what is theoretically a short chunk of life, could cost me years of my life, or maybe even a lifetime.

 

[glass eye]

I've been weaning myself away from out-of-state big game hunts. For the price of NR tag fees I can fly to NZ and shoot all the big game I want for free. Hawaii is another good deal although Lana'i has raised its fees. So this May I'm going to Molokai where game on public land is still free, just cost $100 NR lic. I did cash in my elk points this draw in AZ and hopefully soon I'll draw the Gould's tag, I think I got around 19 or 20 points. Once I cash in those chips I'm out. Going to stick with free, cheap, or small game only.

 

[ida homer]

Idaho. A la carte, only buy what you want.

NR License: $154.75
NR Deer: $301.75
NR Elk: $416.75

 

[Camdu7]

Yesterday hurt. $1150ish to MT and another $1300ish to NM. Going to be tough getting up the mountain missing an arm and a leg.

 

[Schism]

One point and one question come to my mind and I’ll bring them up only for the point of discussion.

Point: There are not enough resources for everyone to live in the west so some people must live elsewhere.

Question: Will these high tag prices hurt conservation and public land awareness by eliminating some non-resident’s support due to a feeling of never being able to afford the fees involved with hunting public land in the west?

 

[SFC B]

I had to start a long term plan to be "Western" about 10 years ago. I had to make several drug deals in the Army(including a nasty stop at Bragg and 2 deployments) in order to get and keep me at Ft Carson. Once here it was what I thought it would be. Thankfully mama loves out here almost as much as I do (even though she isn't very functionally outdoorsy). This is especially a big deal as ALL of our families are back in IN. While I love them, love Hoosiers in general and could live MUCH more comfortably at home on my retirement there is no way I could leave the intermountain West. When people at home ask "Why?" I send them pics like these....a view down my street and my front yard this past Sunday morning.

 

[805Bowhunter]

I appreciate the perspective that a lot of the "residents" are making on this thread. I certainly understand also what Fin is specifically saying about the costs that are involved with choosing to live where you do. I have lived in California my whole life. I was raised in Southern California and my "hunting" started at a young age but revolved around the ocean. I shot my first fish when I was six and have been spearfishing for almost thirty years now as a way to provide food for my family. I got into bowhunting when I moved to Central California where the hunting opportunities were much greater (but still do not hold a candle to the more traditional "western" states). One thing I have learned and come to expect, and I've seen this with fellow hunters who travel quite a bit out of state, is that it is our responsibility in a lot of ways to pay for these tags. I honestly have no problem on an ethical perspective paying the prices that we do to hunt in Ariz, Wyo, Montana, Colorado, Utah etc.

My wife and I are not rich by any means. I am a public high school teacher and my wife is an Occupational Therapist who works with wounded vets. We have a son that is one and a daughter that is three. I typically apply for points throughout the west but only go on one planned hunt out of state each Fall. We budget this into our finances and because I look at it as my main vacation, I honestly feel like I'm getting a deal. We also make our saving a priority. So much so that we even sold one of our two trucks to buy a, gulp, Prius to save money on commuting. While a thousand bucks is a lot of money for us, I have no problem paying it because, I feel that once you experience the things you do in these states with hunting, fishing, camping etc, I feel that there is an obligation to protect them and also support them. My expectations "bar" is also a lot lower than a lot of you. I hunt pig all year round, turkey in season, deer in season (locally) and then hopefully one elk hunt out of state. With work, its not even an option to hunt elk twice. Anyhow, my point is, Im beyond pumped to do my one elk hunt a season. I know a lot of people that live in "western" states who get a bull elk, cow elk, turkey, bear, buck, doe etc. all in a year. Hunting this many quality animals isn't even on my radar for one year so when I get my one elk tag, I'm pumped to have that one tag. I will continue to apply/buy points across the west because I feel like it is important for conservation and my mental well being, even if I have to get another job...seriously. Its just that important to me and my family.

 

[805Bowhunter]

I also feel that my brain is numb to some of these numbers as a dump of a house in Southern California, sandwiched in between a liquor store and a freeway onramp is north of $800,000.

 

[schmalts]

For the first time in 12 years i put in for the deer only instead of the deer/elk combo. Can't justify it anymore. I hear what you are saying Randy, but it's gotten to be like welfare at this split. Sorry, but you really do know this is not good for the long term of hunting.

 

[805Bowhunter]

For the first time in 12 years i put in for the deer only instead of the deer/elk combo. Can't justify it anymore. I hear what you are saying Randy, but it's gotten to be like welfare at this split. Sorry, but you really do know this is not good for the long term of hunting.

I do tend to agree with this on some level. I guess that's why I simply pick my one species. There's no way I could afford to play the game for all species in all the western states. I guess what I am saying is that I do feel like it is important to support what I can for what I get out of it.

 

[Big Fin]

One point and one question come to my mind and I’ll bring them up only for the point of discussion.

Point: There are not enough resources for everyone to live in the west so some people must live elsewhere.

Question: Will these high tag prices hurt conservation and public land awareness by eliminating some non-resident’s support due to a feeling of never being able to afford the fees involved with hunting public land in the west?

I think that is a great question. Not sure I have answers. I have some opinions, but those are not necessarily answers, as they are formed by my life experiences that create the lens by which I see the issue.

I think about it a lot, as this is very common topic during tag application season.

Does it eliminate support for conservation? Maybe in some areas or instances. In other instances, I think it might create more passionate conservationists when you see how much they invest in a lifestyle that is built around lands that need conservation. I think it is a net negative, but I don't have the answer of how to overcome that issues.

I am sure it reduces connection to public land. I have heard it many times, "Why should I care about public land issues when cost and tag allocations keeping me from hunting public lands." I can try to explain that the wildlife is not connected to the land and therefore there is no connection between quasi-land ownership of public lands and tag cost/allocation. That is not how they perceive it and thus their perception, however technically and legally incorrect, is their reality. I think this feeling of disenfranchisement is an even bigger net negative and trying to find ways to tackle that topic eats a lot of my time.

 

[Big Fin]

For the first time in 12 years i put in for the deer only instead of the deer/elk combo. Can't justify it anymore. I hear what you are saying Randy, but it's gotten to be like welfare at this split. Sorry, but you really do know this is not good for the long term of hunting.

I call BS on the welfare comment. That might be the perception of some, but consideration of all pertinent facts would not support that.

I agree that the pricing models are not good for the long-term interest of hunting. Got any answers to that which will have a practical chance of getting implemented?

 

[406LIFE]

What BigFin says is still true 30 years later. After high school, I left MT and went to the military and school and saw a few states. I moved back home when the first "opportunity" presented itself. I took a salary at about 1/4 what I used to make and my wife was blessed to find something comparable to what she had. I have friends in my field who make 4-6x as much as I do. But I tell them I get to live in MT. WORTH EVERY SINGLE PENNY.

But we pay in opportunity to hunt/fish as well. Just count the number of out of state plates in Braodus on Nov 15. Or see what is in the McDonalds in Dillon on Sept 15. Or try fishing Rock Creek July 31. If the costs were any less, I'm not sure we would have anywhere to go.

$1K+ is real money, I apply out of state as well so I feel the pain.