WYO PP Bill (SF085)

[ihuntelk]

Anyone else out there from Wyoming that is opposed to this bill?
PM me with your name, town and phone #. I'll then shoot you my email and cell #.
We've still got a couple parts of Wyoming that need covered by concerned sportsmen. Most of Wyoming has no clue this bill is being pushed and how far along it is.

Thanks in advance!

-Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com

 

[WY Hunter]

I'm torn on this one I can see the good and bad so I'm on the fence.

 

[sreekers]

Well, lets look at it this way Wy Hunter, how would you feel about 7 year waits, minimum to hunt some of the areas south of Casper for Deer? I am thinking a couple of specific units that are decent for deer, but certainly not worth a 7 year wait. Add in point creep, and you could be looking at 10 if your luck sucks.

So, would you rather have a chance every year or a guarantee of drawing those every so often, like once a decade or two?

 

[sreekers]

Another consideration, once we have it, no going back......try repealing a bill that a majority of your constituents have a stake in.....

 

[Topgun 30-06]

BuzzH and I have been trying to convince members on the MM site to oppose this Bill and it's been very difficult to get things across to a number of them. One guy says the random system is terrible because he never draws a tag for a hard to draw unit and, therefore, the PP system will be great for him. All he or anyone else needs to do is look at all the draw odds in the NR system that started 7 years ago and look at the backlog it's already caused for a lot of units for all three game animals. There are a number that many won't draw for a number of years yet and they were ones that got in the first year and have maximum PPs. Why would anyone want a system where it will take years to draw ONE tag when the chance is at least there right now to draw that tag EVERY year under the random system? An antelope unit that I had a chance to draw in every year now takes at least 3 or 4 years and the elk unit 5 or 6 years to draw ONE tag. For anything other than the units that turn over every couple years the PP system sucks!!!

 

[WY Hunter]

Well here's my view on the system. The 100% random system we have now is great for the fact that you never know what your going to draw and everyone has the same chance at the tags. I put in for 8 tags every year and I always draw at least one so I'm not one of the bitter guys that never draws a tag. However there is a deer tag south of casper that I have never drawn putting in for my 5th year this year now, with a pp system I would be drawing the tag this year. I don't see having a 7-10 year wait for a tag, and don't believe you can compare the NR system to the proposed resident system. Lets take elk area 7 as an example as that seems like a popular area. 133 NR tags of which 100 go to highest point holders and 1300 total first choice applicants, that gives you a 10% ratio of tags to applicants. Residents are given 1052 total tags and 3910 first choice applicants which gives you a 26% tag to applicant ratio. That's over double! And the NR are only waiting 6 years for the tag. Given that they go with 50/50 to random/highest pp you still have a chance to draw every year. It's not like your not going to hunt elk every year you are. Apply 7 first choice and if you don't draw you can still draw a second choice or general tag and still gain a PP which gives you an edge the next year for the area 7 tag. That strategy applies for the kids joining In the point hunt as well.

 

[Toadslayer]

I like the current random system. I may be convinced to support Bonus points though.
Problem with PP is that once you draw, you're back to zero again which would make the good tags once in a lifetime. No Thanks

 

[WY Hunter]

I agree a bonus point system would be a lot better than preference. I would miss logging in on draw results day and being totally surprised by what I drew with the pp system also. I love that rush of excitement when you see you drew when you thought you had no chance

 

[fiveptbill]

I am one of the disgruntled people. I don't know if I slept with someones wife or what but I can't draw a tag to save my life. With that said I am not in favor of a preference point system. I see how it works in Colorado where you might get to hunt one of the really good areas once in a lifetime. Granted they don't really have a general hunt so that takes a little of the sting out of it for us but I do like to be able to try to play the odds. Even though I know it won't work out for me.

PS I know someone on this board who drew a tag that has 3% draw odds twice in 3 years.

 

[BuzzH]

My main point against the preference system is that the "worse" case scenerio facing a Resident elk, deer, and pronghorn hunter in Wyoming is a general deer, general elk, 2 lion tags, a black bear tag, and 2 good buck antelope tags per year. I'll not get into the weeds further about all the cow elk and doe/fawn antelope/deer tags.

IMO, its flat not worth creating a point system because a handful of deer, elk, and pronghorn units are tough(er) to draw.

If guys that apply for tags in units with 10% odds are shocked they arent drawing...I suggest remedial statistics and learning how to look at the WYG&F draw odds.

I rarely apply for deer, elk, or pronghorn tags with less than 30% draw odds. I want a reasonable chance to draw and IMO/E many times the general areas are better than some of the "coveted" tags. I dont see why people bitch about not drawing when they put in, across the board, for hunts with 10% or less draw odds???

I killed my biggest WY mule deer in a general area...my best WY pronghorn on a second choice tag. I've never had a problem killing bull elk on general tags.

I'd hate to see a system created for a handful of hunters applying for a handful of tags in a handful of units.

Keep the random and take your chances on the tough to draw units...in between, go hunt some of the best OTC deer and elk in the country as well as great second, third, and even OTC pronghorn hunts.

Oh, and as to unit 7 elk, I'd not trade my general elk tag for a unit 7 tag...

 

[WY Hunter]

Hmm I see your concern buzz and I agree on most parts. I to have killed my biggest antelope in a second choice area and my biggest Muley and whitetail in the same general unit. The only unit with draw odds under 10% I've applied for is the deer tag I mentioned and I m no at all surprised to see unsuccessful every year. It would be nice to be able to be building points while I'm hunting those second or gen choice units. I must say I am leaning towards the current system we have just due to the suspense every year of waiting for draw results. I like your statement of worst case scenario. Our system now works why risk throwing it in the crapper on one that nobody knows how it's going to go, seems we all have different speculations on that subject.

Oh and I would never apply for unit 7 just using it as an example because everyone else I know thinks its the holy grail of elk units.

 

[BuzzH]

unit 7....1300 ES elk tags, 3,000 cow tags...holy grail?

I was thinking more along the lines of a cluster-____.

 

[WY Hunter]

Yeah that's what keeps me away to lol but every year a few of my buddies try to get me to apply, no way Jose

 

[ihuntelk]

I'm so glad everyone is civil and logical on this site. Thank you!

One other thing to consider is how many more apps there really are. The last time I drew unit 7 was in 2001. Right at 50% odds for 800 tags - 1600 resident apps. Last year was 3900+ apps. for 1050 tags.
Senator Hicks favorite unit is 61 up the Greybull River. I remember in 1998 when it went from drawing as a 2nd choice to less than a 100% draw. Last year was 35% and they've increased tag #'s. I don't have all the WGFD numbers in front of me to double verify so some of my numbers may be off, but I don't think so. All I'm saying is that numbers change. Look at Wyo moose as a prime example: 1160 moose tags in 2002 vs. 460 tags in 2011. That's 700 (60%) less tags in less than a decade. Wolves and a fatal arterial worm are mostly the culprits. Fire suppression is another biggie. Who would have thought 18 years ago when PP's for moose were started that their numbers would be less than half????? We need to look long-term. Wyo is still Bar-None the best state for the Resident hunter. Let's keep it that way!

-Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com

 

[The Hedgehog]

Wyo is still Bar-None the best state for the Resident hunter. Let's keep it that way!

You're smoking pot.

 

[ihuntelk]

except for the 6 or 7 week archery hunt that Montana has!! IMO

 

[mhungerford]

PS I know someone on this board who drew a tag that has 3% draw odds twice in 3 years.

:hump::hump::hump::hump::hump:

lol

 

[sreekers]

For the record:

I have never drawn a premium, or even good quality tag in Wyoming, in 14 years of tryings.

I would rather never draw, than gaurantee myself at LEAST another 10 years before I have a chance at some of the better units.

One idea I would support is a law that would require successful applicants for the "better" LQ units sitting out of the drawing for 3 years. Not sure on what units this would apply, but if it's about opportunity then this could help with that. Buzz, Cade your thoughts?

 

[JLS]

A wait period has been tossed around in MT for the LE deer and elk units and has never taken hold. Personally, I think that's a hell of a lot better solution than a PP system.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I think a "waiting period" of some sort after a person draws a premium tag with a low percentage of say 20% would be a much better solution than changing to a situation where you can't get out of it once it's law and people start buying PPs or earning bonus points. That would still leave them a lot of other LE units to apply for, as well as to also hunt on a general tag in those waiting years.