WY preference point deminishing returns?

[Muskeez]

That's my plan LCH, just gotta do a little research instead of throwing darts I'm glad I bought some points so that I have some options now at least. The planning is half the fun. Sorry I got this sidetracked for you LifeSupport.

 

[NoWiser]

I don't think you need an exact plan in place, so much as knowing what you are getting yourself into with each state.

As for Wyoming elk with 4 points. My thoughts are that you'd be hard pressed to draw a limited tag in the next 10-15 years that will be significantly better than what you could find on a general hunt next year. Point creep is alive and well in Wyoming with no sign of slowing down.

 

[Muskeez]

I think another option for Lifesupport and I and others would be to take a new hunter with us and share our points with them and go to a 2 point general unit. That may be what I do.

 

[BuzzH]

Well, Buzz, when you are 45 years old and just getting started in the western hunting game, you buy points for yourself and your kids because you are just learning about everything and are excited to try to do it all. Greenhorn knowledge leads us to believe that we need points if we want to hunt something. I want to hunt every critter out there, but realized I would likely never draw Moose, sheep, Mt goat, but could draw elk, deer, and antelope before I'm too old. So, yes, I bought points in CO and WY since they are states that I can visit on one -two day drives for vacations as well as hunting trips. I may have spent more $ on points than I needed to if I had solid plans but when you don't have connections out west I believe it's still a good plan to buy some points right away and learn as you go. That way when you do find a place that you want to hunt a specific species you at least have a few points built up to either go do it or you have a few points head start on making that trip happen. There's my logic anyway.

Yep, you and everyone else...driving point creep.

 

[BuzzH]

Harsh. Maybe they could still figure it out or get some fellow hunters to steer them in the right direction and don’t “deserve to be bewildered”.

Buzz, your response seems your more aimed at holding folks back than helping people out. Thanks for letting us know how great of a planner you are.

Realistically, I started getting points knowing I wouldn’t make it to WY for several years. If I have an excess of points when I am ready to hunt then it won’t be the worst investment I could have made. I don’t think the concrete plan you made is the only right way to go.

If you want to pay for points and fund the various Departments, knock yourself out, I'm not holding anyone back from anything.

Just seems odd with all the information out there on the GF websites, that people cant plan a simple hunt.

 

[Carnage2011]

Hunters buying points without a plan on how to use them, deserve to be bewildered and caught in the point trap of their own making.

Every state I apply in that has points, I had a plan from the first time I submitted an application.

No plan in place, you're simply throwing money down the drain.

I agree with most of your post Buzz, but I think what most people are running into is not realizing how long it actually takes to draw. I think a lot of people go hunt somewhere for deer or antelope and see a bunch of bull elk and decide they want to hunt that unit. They look up the draw odds and see that it takes 4-7 preference points, and they think they will be hunting in 4-7 years, when in reality it's probably more like 8-12 years. They had a plan when they started buying points, but now their plan is out the window and they aren't sure where to turn. Wyoming to me is an opportunity state for a great hunt. I figure I can draw it whenever I want at this point and go have a quality experience. If people are getting into the points game then they need to realize how long it may take and truly lay out a plan. Have some states that are strictly for trophy potential i.e. Arizona and Utah, and other states that are for more opportunity.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Hunters buying points without a plan on how to use them, deserve to be bewildered and caught in the point trap of their own making.

Every state I apply in that has points, I had a plan from the first time I submitted an application.

No plan in place, you're simply throwing money down the drain.

This seems to be the point of this thread. Year 1 with 0 points guy makes plain 4, 8 or 12 years later plans change. Bad winters, point creep, yadda,yadda.
Plans need to be fluid.
Start with a goal and a plan. Continually research and change plans to improve odds of achieving goal.

 

[ZBB]

Harsh. Maybe they could still figure it out or get some fellow hunters to steer them in the right direction and don’t “deserve to be bewildered”.

Buzz, your response seems your more aimed at holding folks back than helping people out. Thanks for letting us know how great of a planner you are.

Realistically, I started getting points knowing I wouldn’t make it to WY for several years. If I have an excess of points when I am ready to hunt then it won’t be the worst investment I could have made. I don’t think the concrete plan you made is the only right way to go.

I don’t think it’s holding someone back. There are numerous online services that detail what tags can be drawn with what points, almost everyone has a YouTube video on “drawing more tags”, and lets not forget every spring the posts on this forum and others that goes something like “ I have x amount of points where should I go?” Then it’s “I drew tag y, I’ve done TONS of e-scouting and called the biologist. Not looking for honey hole, just where to park my truck, what direction and how far I should walk.” No, with the amount of information available that bewilderment is well deserved.

 

[Muskeez]

Great info in this whole thread. I don't see how my plan to buy some points in two states and then start to do a few years of research and then burn my points wherever I can get a tag at the time I decide it's right for me in my life to hunt is a bad thing and drives up point creep.?? I do get it that those like Buzz that have been in the game a long time and hunt lots of states would like less of us newbies around to drive up point creep, but that's how life goes. Kinda like the idiots chirping about Randy being bad for the sport by bringing new people in and helping them learn how to get tags. He is doing a good thing for the hunting community and the future of public lands. If I hadn't bought points for the last 6 years when I started to realize it was time to go out west and hunt then I wouldn't have given two craps about public lands and the issues of the west. Why would I if I'm never going to hunt or fish or play there? So, ya, I think it's a good thing for guys to buy points then start the learning process and plan some fun hunts for themselves and their families before they get too old to do it.

 

[mdunc8]

I don't see how my plan to buy some points in two states and then start to do a few years of research and then burn my points wherever I can get a tag at the time I decide it's right for me in my life to hunt is a bad thing and drives up point creep.??

It doesn’t. The fact that you’re new does though. Point creep is driven by the number of applicants relative to the number of tags. When the number of applicants increases at a greater rate than the tags available, the number of points required to draw a tag increases. If you’re trying to draw a tag that historically required five points to draw, it doesn’t matter if you’re applying with five points or nine. Either way, one new hunter is applying for the tag, which is leading to point creep. Applying with more points than is required to draw might draw the attention of other applicants the following year, which could have people jumping ship on the unit they planned to hunt and apply for the unit you drew because they think the new unit is now worth the extra points. However, if the number of applicants and tags remain the same, some tags would require fewer points to draw since those applicants pulled their name out of the hat in another unit. Honestly, Buzz should be encouraging people to hoard points because that means they’re hunting less, which would slow point creep.

 

[ZBB]

I haven’t been on this site as long as other members nor do I have a high post count, but I can honestly say I’ve never seen anyone discouraged from coming out west to hunt. Also I think it’s pretty naive to think only buying points then tossing your name in the bucket doesn’t affect point creep. The statistics only show what it took that year. So if a unit has 20 tags that took 5 points to draw the next year 25 guys with 5 points that were sitting on the sideline go in it drives the points to 6, and the cycle continues.

 

[Muskeez]

Of course more names in the bucket will increase point creep, that is obvious. It's too bad so many flatlanders want to come out west and enjoy their public lands I thought Buzz was saying that buying points without a plan and not using them is a contributing factor. Whether someone has a plan or not makes no difference, nor does it matter if they are banking points, until they use those points. Pretty simple of course. Buzz commented a few weeks ago about having a sheep tag. Either he got lucky and drew that tag on a couple points or he has been sitting on such points for decades waiting for the time in his life that he could draw it or wanted to. Good for him, I hope he enjoys the hunt and gets a big ram! He has probably paid for a lot of points and earned it.

 

[lifesupport4u]

Hunters buying points without a plan on how to use them, deserve to be bewildered and caught in the point trap of their own making.

Every state I apply in that has points, I had a plan from the first time I submitted an application.

No plan in place, you're simply throwing money down the drain.

I don’t think it’s holding someone back. There are numerous online services that detail what tags can be drawn with what points, almost everyone has a YouTube video on “drawing more tags”, and lets not forget every spring the posts on this forum and others that goes something like “ I have x amount of points where should I go?” Then it’s “I drew tag y, I’ve done TONS of e-scouting and called the biologist. Not looking for honey hole, just where to park my truck, what direction and how far I should walk.” No, with the amount of information available that bewilderment is well deserved.

He basically said if you don’t have a plan the day you buy a preference point you “deserve to be bewildered” and then offered no helpful response to the original question.

This post isn’t looking for specific unit info like the posts you discussed and there have been some useful posts about point creep, people “selling points”, etc that are useful information.

I would rather move back to the original topic of the point system in WY, point creep and when people prefer to use their points.

You are right...There are other resources out there, but many of us also enjoy conversation via the forum when people have intent to contribute meaningful content and encourage discussion and occasionally provide help to others who are still figuring it out.

 

[WapitiBob]

There are upper tier WY hunt areas that haven’t “crept” for years, I drew one last year.
The problem I see with points is people don’t look at the point pools. Area x may have been 100% this year with say 10 points but if there are 200 apps in the 9 point pool and 15 tags it’ll be a long way from 100% next year. That and expecting to draw a top end hunt when you start 15 years late.
Understand what you can draw, what you will never draw, and go from there.

 

[mdhunter]

All I know about Wyoming is the first elk tag I drew in that state took four years worth of points (that was in 2010). It is a decent unit in the wilderness area, but certainly not a premier unit in the state.

I applied for the same hunt last year with eight points and did not draw. If I do draw it next year I am probably done with elk in WY as it might take double again the years to draw the same hunt.

 

[WyoDoug]

General tags are easy to draw LOL. Well for us resident types. Seriously though, quality hunts in lower demand areas are often over looked. People think you get skunked there mainly. But really, it is how you do your homework beforehand, knowing your quarry, and willing to do what it takes to get there. I can not count on my hands the number of times people told me they haven't seen deer or antelope or that they just are not there, then I park my truck by a field and walk over to the hills over yonder and look down into the valleys, flats and draws they like to move through and filled my tag when the advice I got indicated I probably would not see anything. It's knowing how to read the terrain and the sign they leave behind, much it dismissed or the hunter don't know what it means. If you are willing to work at it, you can get the same trophy or meat animal in the other areas that are easier to draw and get the same quality of hunt. I even hunt in the vicinity of high hunting pressure sometimes because I usually have a good idea where they will move through and simply wait for the opportune shot.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think it was @Cornell2012 that talked out the various point systems and how pref points were a great system until like 5 points or something worth of demand and then bonus points or lottery became the best system.

I think that’s pretty true, in CO and WY I only build a handful of points and basically try to just get out there and hunt. I’m the bonus point system states I buy points and apply every year for great tags, you never know, in the straight lottery states I really shoot for the stars and pick OIL type tags.
At this point I’ve never drawn anything, that was more difficult that 50/50 odds or had a tag that you couldn’t draw every other year.

Honestly, no complaints... managed to have some phenomenal times in the woods solo and with friends and killed a bunch of deer, elk, bears, pronghorns, turkeys, etc... probably won’t hunt a goat or sheep in my lifetime but whatever.

To the OP, I think right around 5 is the sweet spot... maybe push it to 7 or 8 but only if there are lots of tags for that unit and it’s been at 7 or 8 for a number of years, if the unit was 6 points in 2017 and 8 points in 2019 don’t bother.

 

[justinch]

Get a low or zero point deer license and scout elk while you deer hunt. If you are lucky enough to be in a general area you could kill a deer, get some elk intel and be ready to hunt in 2-3 years. Solid plan.

 

[Irrelevant]

I had the same number of points you did and decided that point creep would keep pace with me on the hunts I wanted to do (at least until there's a good recession and the # of applicants drops). So I cashed my points in on a general license and was able to bring along another friend that didn't have any points. For me, because I like to hunt as much as possible, I now view WY as just a general tag, only get points to get it.

 

[BucksnDucks]

Hunters buying points without a plan on how to use them, deserve to be bewildered and caught in the point trap of their own making.

Every state I apply in that has points, I had a plan from the first time I submitted an application.

No plan in place, you're simply throwing money down the drain.

I agree with your general point, but the reality is life has a way of changing the plans I might be making several years out. Especially when those plans involve a 12 year old at the start.
I think it was Mike Tyson that said "everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Life might smack you twice