wtf rmef

[Ben Lamb]

You are absolutely right that sportsmen should celebrate all that was defended an accomplished this session. Good job and thanks to all those who put effort forth.

In this particular thread, the issue isn't really SB 245 though, it's David Allen's accusations and the manner in which they were made. What do you think of calling those who opposed SB 245 "pseudosportsman" groups?

I think there could have been some better wordsmithing of that alert, but that doesn't change the large amount of respect that I have for David Allen or RMEF as an organization. Same goes for the guys who were bashing RMEF over supporting the bill.

Everyone is passionate about these issues, and sometimes that passion overtakes common sense.

Buzz - I don't disagree that a landowner will go to a legislator and complain if they don't get a custom late season hunt, but the law is the law, and there are a lot of organizations that field lobbyists and volunteers to make sure that things don't go too far south. THere are no guarantees in this world expect that someone will be an asshole, and everyone else will have something to say about it.

But again, SB 245 doesn't erode commission authority, it codifies it.

 

[bigskyblueman]

Allen had to know he was attacking some of his own members , and he did it in an uncalled for manner. Perhaps he is unfit to continue in his pseudo- leadership role.

 

[RobG]

Everyone is passionate about these issues, and sometimes that passion overtakes common sense.

Well, when you are paid in excess of $230,000 it should be expected that you are able to deal with this sort of stuff with a degree of competency. Truthfully, Allen probably just accidentally said what he was thinking about those other groups being green decoys and he gave his membership more reason to believe it too.

You aren't going to believe this.. as I'm typing I got a robocall from rmef telling me to go to their banquet. No thank you.

 

[noharleyyet]

You answer robocalls while someone is still wrong on the internet?

 

[BuzzH]

Everyone is passionate about these issues, and sometimes that passion overtakes common sense.

Yeah, but I hear that when emotion trumps passion...its time to walk away.:W:

 

[RobG]

You answer robocalls while someone is still wrong on the internet?

I can multitask. Plus I thought was Allen calling to apologize for hurting my tender feelings.

All this is nice boys, but there is a caddis hatch about ready to explode and I love the smell of fishslime in the morning.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Yeah, but I hear that when emotion trumps passion...its time to walk away.:W:

Then the innernets would be forever silent.

 

[whiskeydog]

Here's the response I received from RMEF regarding an email I wrote them last night on this topic:

***************

Thanks for the email. Our reference to pseudo sportsmen groups was not directed at Hellgate Hunters & Anglers or the Montana Bowhunters Association. Neither group has been misleading on this issue and we respect both groups’ opposition to this bill.



The Montana Wildlife Federation (MWF) did meet our criteria of being misleading on this issue, and recently referenced RMEF as a “non-mainstream conservation organization” because we supported this bill. Our reference to pseudo sportsmen groups related to the misleading comments made by MWF, such as referring to landowners as “harborers” and this legislation creating custom elk hunts for outfitters as we addressed in the below email.



Our intent was not to be offensive. It was to provide our members with facts related to this bill in light of misinformation spread by MWF. “Pseudo” by definition includes misleading. which is accurate in this case.



Thanks again for the feedback.



Mark Holyoak



Mark Holyoak | Director of Communication
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
406-523-3481 phone | 406-523-4550 fax
[email protected] | www.rmef.org

 

[katqanna]

Linguistically "pseudo" does mean false, misleading, spurious, fake. But it is an adjective attached to the noun (forming a compound) it is describing. In the case of "pseudoscience" it means the science is false, misleading, fake - not real science at all.

Pseudo sportsmen means fake sportsmen, not that some real sportsmen were "misleading" on a subject. The contextual use by Allen confirms the intended use, as it was not the message of these "other" sportsmen that was being targeted as false, but the groups themselves: "however he is now under pressure from cries for a veto from pseudo-sportsmen groups."

Studying Journalism at the University of Wyoming, as stated at the RMEF website, I would think Allen would clearly know what he was writing.

 

[bigskyblueman]

Correct. The same use of language Richard Berman employs.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Well what I really meant was.... Yea right! Why not just admit they screwed up, misused the term pseudo, and straighten things out. I belong to RMEF, but didn't get that email, and I'm not happy with what was in it when I read it on this thread.

 

[Big Foot]

I am a RMEF member and proud of the organization. By the numbers RMEF is getting done for us sportsman, especially here in MT. (Big Snowy's, Big Belts and Medicine Lodge come to mind)

SB 245 seems like a benign bill, at least at face value. As said before in this thread, Montana sportsman dodged some dandy bills this session and if SB 245 is our concession then so be it.

I do have some reservations about Mr. Allen. I hope my gut is wrong and RMEF has a great leader who will continue to steer the ship in the right direction.

 

[tjones]

I would like to hear Fin's take on it all.

He has a stake in the RMEF and owns the joint.

 

[warmer]

I would like to hear Fin's take on it all.

This.

 

[Oak]

I won't pretend to understand the wildlife management politics of MT, but from the outside looking in it is difficult to understand why RMEF would have a vested interest in a bill being described as "benign" by supporters. What other sportsman's organizations are supporting the bill, and why would RMEF oppose so many locally based groups on the issue?

 

[Jwill]

With Oak, this would have been a good one for RMEF to sit out. Not a good issue to burn capital on. Kicked dirt on some potential allies, called into question the leadership, all over an issue that nobody cares much about...

 

[katqanna]

Oak the SB 245

Proponents organizations were RMEF, Montana Farm Bureau, Montana Stockgrowers Assn., Montana Cattlewomen, Montana Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife, Montana Outfitters & Guides Assn., Darryl James for the Wilks Ranch and FWP.

Opponents organizations were Montana Wildlife Federation, Laurel Rod and Gun Club, Montana Sportsmen Alliance, Anaconda Sportsmens Club, Skyline Sportsmen, Jefferson Valley Sportsmen Assn., Helena Hunters and Anglers.

I know of some other sportsmens groups that could not attend and sent letters in, as well as passing around emails from their groups opposing SB 245, urging participation against it. But there could also be sporting groups I dont receive anything from that are for it. The above are those that went to Helena and are on public record from the hearing.

 

[RobG]

Here's the response I received from RMEF regarding an email I wrote them last night on this topic:

***************

Thanks for the email. Our reference to pseudo sportsmen groups was not directed at Hellgate Hunters & Anglers or the Montana Bowhunters Association. Neither group has been misleading on this issue and we respect both groups’ opposition to this bill.



The Montana Wildlife Federation (MWF) did meet our criteria of being misleading on this issue, and recently referenced RMEF as a “non-mainstream conservation organization” because we supported this bill. Our reference to pseudo sportsmen groups related to the misleading comments made by MWF, such as referring to landowners as “harborers” and this legislation creating custom elk hunts for outfitters as we addressed in the below email.



Our intent was not to be offensive. It was to provide our members with facts related to this bill in light of misinformation spread by MWF. “Pseudo” by definition includes misleading. which is accurate in this case.



Thanks again for the feedback.



Mark Holyoak



Mark Holyoak | Director of Communication
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
406-523-3481 phone | 406-523-4550 fax
[email protected] | www.rmef.org

Very disappointing response. I would have loved facts, but that wasn't what that email was. Harboring is a term used by MFWP to describe the problem so I would expect other groups to use it.

By all this I don't want to imply I'm happy with MWF's (and others) seeming quest to oppose anything that might possibly benefit private landowners or outfitters either.

And Oak called it right... there is nothing I can see in this bill worth even worth caring about. But this session was pretty boring so groups got to look like they are opposing something.

 

[6speed]

Oak the SB 245

Proponents organizations were RMEF, Montana Farm Bureau, Montana Stockgrowers Assn., Montana Cattlewomen, Montana Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife, Montana Outfitters & Guides Assn., Darryl James for the Wilks Ranch FWP

Interesting bedfellows...

 

[RockyDog]

I looked at a few dictionaries and thesauruses and nowhere do i see pseudo defined as or synonymous with "misleading".

I think the rmef response seems arrogant and disingenuous

I agree this ticks me off almost as much as when Allen and the leaders supported the roadless release act.