D
Deleted member 16014
Guest
WY big game outlooks don't suck either...and here comes the internet trying to convince me they's all ate up.
Wolves are dispersing
- Thread starter wytex
- Start date
BrentD
Well-known member
Not to be too much of a pessimist but would you expect them to say things might be terrible or bad?
jryoung
Well-known member
Of course not, it's this detail that matters. And like Snowy said, WY has great numbers and Montana is doing a lot to "shoulder" the burden of "social tolerance"
uncle sage
Member
Hopefully Wy won't adopt the "don't harm the Predator at any cost" attitude that the voters here have passed and has been in effect for many years. Their cries are written in stone and our Fish and Wildlife hands seem to be tied. Our North eastern deer herds were devastated in the early 90's by two successive extremely heavy snow Winters and have not come close to recovering, more so the opposite. With the Yotes, Bears, and Mt lions that exist here in great numbers, our prey animal herds have, along with the other usual suspects, not been existing in a environment conducive to growth. Now recently, on top of the prey animals real struggles, they have introduced the Wolves, another major beloved predator. In any case, myself and many of those i know would like to see a balanced predator-prey program based on numbers installed that slightly favors the prey animal, deer, elk, lopes, here until they can rebound, recover to 30 year ago levels, and once again have and make use of our abundant habitat that has been and is now, mostly bare of anything except predator tracks.
We can't control Mother Nature but we do have the ability to help our prey animals recover to "normal numbers".
Last edited:
HighDesertSage
Well-known member
Do you think they would eat sheep and sheep dogs?
BrentD
Well-known member
What are "normal numbers" ?
rustneversleeps
Well-known member
https://elknetwork.com/informing-misinformed-wolves/
"Having said that, it must be stated wolves are not the sole cause for elk decline, because habitat issues and other predator populations such as mountain lions and bears also come into play, however wolves play an obvious and significant factor in those regions where their numbers are high.
However, it is no coincidence elk numbers declined significantly since the 1995 wolf reintroduction. This fact cannot be explained away."
375H&H
Well-known member
Strange how the 2016 super tag elk winner paid no attention to the "wolves kill all the elk" non sense and still managed to kill a giant bull in the Washakie wilderness...wolf and grizzly central. It must have been the last one.
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Super Tag/Shawn_Keeton_SuperTag_Story.pdf
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Super Tag/Shawn_Keeton_SuperTag_Story.pdf
T
tjones
Guest
I’ll take a scientific study over an OP Ed, but that’s just me.
jryoung
Well-known member
Credit to Schaaf for this one.
375H&H
Well-known member
On second thought maybe I am working against myself.
Wyoming elk hunting is horrible and wolves have been spotted in all corners of the state and all major mountain ranges. It's not worth even applying as everything will be downhill from here.
Wyoming elk hunting is horrible and wolves have been spotted in all corners of the state and all major mountain ranges. It's not worth even applying as everything will be downhill from here.
BrentD
Well-known member
Exactly. No sense in applying for a tag next year. No sense at all.
rustneversleeps
Well-known member
Where am I missing the science? Are facts not science? GoHunt = science and the other two are not credible? First article was specficially a biologist that studied wolves in Yellowstone:
"Smith has been studying wolves in the park since they were transplanted there in 1995. Project leader for wolf restoration, he has been with the program since officials carried the first wolf into a holding pen that year."
The second article stated facts of :
Yellowstone herd down - 80%
Idaho Herd down - 43%
Wolf population - 500% larger than goal
Your article has zero numbers associated with it except "Our project revealed high densities of mountain lions that were causing five to six times more mortality than wolves, and were the leading driver behind elk calf survival and population dynamics,” says Hebblewhite". Believe what you want, but facts speak for themselves.
T
tjones
Guest
Figured with google as your friend you could find it.
http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/management/elk/bitterroot/
rustneversleeps
Well-known member
Ok.....that still didnt answer my question as to the articles I posted were not factual or science based? Keep in mind, if you havent, that that study you're referencing was in a specific area in the Bitterroot with "high densities of mountain lions". If they did the same study in the Big Sky/Madison/Yellowstone valleys, would the numbers say the same thing? Im not a betting man, but as an overall consensus as to whether wolves have a greater impact on elk than mountain lions....I am still saying wolves. Even with your overwhelming evidence in the Bitterroot survey.
T
tjones
Guest
The 2nd link is an OP ED. Its opinion of the author. It may or may not be science based. I'm not saying its not accurate, I am saying we don't know where or how the author came up with his numbers. The Bitterroot study came from researchers, ear tagged calves and radio collared cows. Calf death were investigated as soon as possible after death.
You are defiantly entitled to what ever opinion you like. Carry on.
You are defiantly entitled to what ever opinion you like. Carry on.
Last edited by a moderator:
mdunc8
Well-known member
...
rustneversleeps
Well-known member
Fair enough and I understand your point, but numbers like this in a high density mountain lion area cannot speak to the entire predator/prey relationship and be blanketed across the state(s):
Bear Predation - 4 0.078
Mountain Lion Predation - 9 0.176
Wolf Predation - 6 0.117
Non-predation - 9 0.176
Unknown Cause - 23 0.450
They had 9 confirmed lion kills, 6 confirmed wolf kills, and 23 unknown on calves specifically. If 3 of those unknown kills were wolves, they would be the same (obviously). I would consider this an extremely small survey in a specific area. Either way I digress.
Similar threads
