Which spotter is "good enough" ?

[Bluejeep]

So here is my delema. I have been wanting to go sheep hunting for quite a few years and I have decided to stop waiting and just do it. I have never needed a spotter before for any of my hunting, but then I have never hunted an animal that was so hard to identify if it was legal or not. I know there is 3 ways for a sheep to be legal; curl, broomed, and age. It seems that while curl would be the easiest to determine, followed by broomed, a lot of sheep are taken by age by counting the growth rings.

So on to the question, and maybe this is more for the sheep guys. Which spotter brand and size would be the minimum for such an endevor? And before everybody jumps in and says swaro, here is some other facts to considering. My budget for glass would be about $1500 this year. I was thinking the Vortex Razor 27-60 might be able to be squeezed in, but would they be good enough? I would love to do the swaro ATX with a 65mm lense, but that is not in the budget until at least next season, and only if I skip a purchase this year. And if I have no spotter, then that would most likely mean no sheep hunt for 2019. So while any spotter would be an upgrade over just binoculars, would the razor be good enough or should I skip this season and go for the swaros (or another high end brand)?

 

[wannakillabigbull]

I would not personally consider a Vortex spotter for sheep hunting. Vortex does make (or has in the past) some quality products but I don't love their spotters for super fine details like sheep hunting. Two options to consider in or close to your price range:

Kowa 553 (angled) or 554 (straight). Full price is $1800 but can be found for under that new or used. B&H Photo has the 554 new for $1600, and they pop up on DVOR for under $1300 new. Used I've seen them on places like Rokslide for around $1400 or lower.

Swaro ATS (angled) or STS (straight) 65mm HD used. If you shop around they can be found used for around $1500. Texas Bino Man has a couple for $1750.

There are some other options too, I'm sure others would chime in. But for that price those would be my personal considerations. Obviously I would say go with a bigger objective in the higher end brands but I think they're out of reach price wise.

 

[utahminer]

For what's its worth I just watched an older episode of Meat Eater where Rinella took a nice ram using a Vortex Diamondback without any problems. Are you going sheep hunting in Alaska or Canada? Or are the requirements the same for the Montana Unlimited? If you are in Canada or Alaska then I imagine that we can assume you are using a guide. I would expect the guide to carry something more than sufficient.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I got a 65mm Swaro ATM HD for $1500-ish, would do the same again.

 

[Bluejeep]

This would be in the unlimited and other diy units, and would also help up my scouting game.

So I should of metioned in my first post that I have limited my choices to something that Cabela's would carry as I have a very nice stack of gift cards that seems to get taller as the years go on. There is not much else there that interests me, as I can find better deals else where, but the difference in prices on glass is very small across venders, so I figured that's where the cards would get spent.

So with that extra info and vortex out of the line up, who else should I consider? ATX, ATS, Leupold, Cabela's Euro? What size objective? Is 65mm good enough or should I just suck it up and go big or go home and take the weight penalty of a larger objective?

 

[cahunter805]

Can’t go wrong with a Swarovski 65mm ATS or ATX. The Cabela’s Euro is made by Meopta and a great scope also.

 

[sneakypete]

So I assume your sheep will be DIY? If going guided don’t spend the $ . If DIY sawro, other high end glass. Don’t forget you’ll need a tripod also.

 

[Bambistew]

I went sheep hunting with a $200 spotting scope, because it was all I had and could afford at the time. Didnt' kill a ram, but found sheep. My experience hunting sheep in early september (only 2 UL sheep hunts in MT) was that their white asses stick out quite well against the green background. They're easier to find than mule deer, IMO, but not much.

The thing with less expensive glass is eye fatigue, at least for me. I have a Zeiss scope, that's going on 12 years now. I have zero reason to upgrade even though it is a bit heavy.

With sheep, you're going to have to get into rifle range to really judge them if they are close to legal anyway. The scope isn't' going to really matter much at that range.

If I'm not mistaken MT sheep have to be 3/4 curl? No worry about full curl, broomed, age, etc. Just a straight line through the base of the horn and eye to tip of horn. With lessor glass you can see the degree of curl pretty easy at reasonable ranges on mature rams. The tips are hard to see even with the best glass at long range. I recall easily deciphering bannana horns, and 1/2 curl rams at a mile or more with a "POS" Tasco scope. I could also see antlers on 4 and 5 point bulls under the right conditions at 5 miles... If you were hunting Dall's and counting rings, and needing to look for thin tips, I wouldn't suggest anything less than the best. IMO, bighorns are just a lot easier to judge.

 

[mtnrunner260]

A 65 swaro will beat out an 85 razor
I would keep an eye on the cabelas bargin cave for alpha glass. Over the next couple months there should be something that pops up.

 

[Bulldog0156]

There is some older stuff out there that you can probably find used that will perform extremely well and be well within your budget.

 

[ntodwild]

This would be in the unlimited and other diy units, and would also help up my scouting game.

So I should of metioned in my first post that I have limited my choices to something that Cabela's would carry as I have a very nice stack of gift cards that seems to get taller as the years go on. There is not much else there that interests me, as I can find better deals else where, but the difference in prices on glass is very small across venders, so I figured that's where the cards would get spent.

So with that extra info and vortex out of the line up, who else should I consider? ATX, ATS, Leupold, Cabela's Euro? What size objective? Is 65mm good enough or should I just suck it up and go big or go home and take the weight penalty of a larger objective?

Do a little research on Athlon scopes. They Make some very nice glass. Cabela brand scopes are made by Athlon. If you are not a label junky and want to save a buck it may be an option??? I should say they made some of Cabelas previous spotting scopes. Not sure if they make their current scopes???

Take a look at the Ares and the Cronus spotters by Athlon

 

[PrairieHunter]

The best way to find a great spotter is to ask people who know what they are talking about. Visit some birding sites and you will quickly find out that they have forgotten more about spotting scopes than most hunters know. cloudynights is another great site for optics info.

Hunters don't know poop from puddin when it comes to optics and almost always recommend the same 3 brands based on no real comparison, or getting into the real nuts and bolts. There is a ton of great glass out there beyond those 3, brands that most hunters have never even heard of. Most hunters think that a swaro spotter is the best glass ever, they have no idea that there are higher end lenses that photographers use that are 20k - 200k, or that the real top shelf glass is in sophisticated medical equipment, not spotting scopes. Hunters have no idea about brands like takahanshi, pentax, kowa, minox, Steiner, etc... who all make top grade optics.

A good example
Most hunters have no idea that you can change eye pieces in spotters and that some have a standard 1.25 eye piece.
Most hunters do not know that there are fixed eye pieces for spotting scopes since all the hunting models come with adjustable.
Most hunters have no idea that fixed eye pieces offer much better view than adjustable eye pieces.
Most hunters have no idea that the real differences in spotters is in the eye pieces.

If you want to look through some great glass at a fair price try the Kowa or a Pentax ED. Both get really good reviews from folks who know.

 

[Bambistew]

Prariehunter, good stuff.

How many sheep hunts have you been on?

 

[T Bone]

I bought a used Leica, and do not want for more.

If I was in your shoes, I'd jump on this deal from Doug @ CameralandNY. I've spent some time behind my friends scope that is the Cabelas version of this, and it is very, very good.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...scope-598880-demo-unit-only-1-09#Post13528731

 

[grizzly_]

Used Swaro or Kowa 553/554. You should be able to find one in your budget with a little luck. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Prariehunter, good stuff.

How many sheep hunts have you been on?

The same amount I have applied for the last 10 years, zero. You don't need to go on a sheep hunt to understand spotting scopes. But it is funny that you asked. Good stuff.

 

[mthillrunner]

I was in the same boat this past summer. I drew a sheep tag this past fall, I had an inadequate & old spotter. I ended up getting a kowa tsn 664 sight unseen. I had tried a vortex & just wasn’t it for my eyes. The kowa was/is certainly an improvement. It didn’t take any more room up in my pack than my other one. I don’t think I’ll ever want for more scope

 

[Bluejeep]

Thank you all for the info and responses. The amount of PMs I have received has been incredible and they almost all are in agreement that Kowa would be the best scope for such an endevor. The research I have done the last few weeks has all been pretty much confirmed by everyone here, and that is a good feeling.

Kowa it is!

...Too bad Cabela's isn't a dealer. Now I have to find something else to spend my gift cards on where I feel like I am getting a good deal from them and not loosing money.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

Kowa it is!

Great choice. I'm a hunter, though, so I'm not sure how I recommended that from the get go since I apparently don't know poop from puddin'

As mentioned it's worth giving Doug from CameralandNY a call. He cuts hunters great deals on Kowa spotters all the time. I've bought from him and had nothing but great experiences.

 

[sluggo6850]

The best way to find a great spotter is to ask people who know what they are talking about. Visit some birding sites and you will quickly find out that they have forgotten more about spotting scopes than most hunters know. cloudynights is another great site for optics info.

Hunters don't know poop from puddin when it comes to optics and almost always recommend the same 3 brands based on no real comparison, or getting into the real nuts and bolts. There is a ton of great glass out there beyond those 3, brands that most hunters have never even heard of. Most hunters think that a swaro spotter is the best glass ever, they have no idea that there are higher end lenses that photographers use that are 20k - 200k, or that the real top shelf glass is in sophisticated medical equipment, not spotting scopes. Hunters have no idea about brands like takahanshi, pentax, kowa, minox, Steiner, etc... who all make top grade optics.

A good example
Most hunters have no idea that you can change eye pieces in spotters and that some have a standard 1.25 eye piece.
Most hunters do not know that there are fixed eye pieces for spotting scopes since all the hunting models come with adjustable.
Most hunters have no idea that fixed eye pieces offer much better view than adjustable eye pieces.
Most hunters have no idea that the real differences in spotters is in the eye pieces.

If you want to look through some great glass at a fair price try the Kowa or a Pentax ED. Both get really good reviews from folks who know.

PrairieHunter, you mention fixed eye pieces are the way to go. Could you give an example of a decent fixed eye piece that doesn't break the bank?