Utah's wildlife director to serve as the new deputy director U.S. Fish and Wildlife

[utahminer]

I'm a little surprised that I haven't seen a thread on this topic already. I know that many of us are not the biggest fans of how things are run in Utah, but I would really like to hear from my fellow Hunttalk members on how this should be viewed. Perhaps I have been too hard on the Utah DWR, but currently I would hate to see, what I perceive, as the Utah dysfunction spread across the nation. At one time I had heard from a trusted source that Don Peay and the head of the Utah DWR (Sheehan) were hunting buddies; which really made my skin crawl. Does anyone have any info to substantiate this? Please provide your thoughts and educate me a little more on the subject.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/2053-sheehan.html

 

[OriginalOscar]

Some comments on the Zinke thread.

My opinion; with Sheehan; Utah has more critters, he navigated politics, and the DWR is a well ran organization.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I'd wager a bet that with that previous post you're an SFW member because the way the DWR and SFW are in bed together along with the wildlife board there is no way that the majority of people in the know that don't belong to the SFW would make that last statement you made!

 

[AlaskaHunter]

I'd wager a bet that with that previous post you're an SFW member because the way the DWR and SFW are in bed together along with the wildlife board there is no way that the majority of people in the know that don't belong to the SFW would make that last statement you made!

SFW = Safe For Work?

I assume DWR is Utah Divsion of Wildlife Resources?

 

[kansasdad]

SFW = Safe For Work?

I assume DWR is Utah Divsion of Wildlife Resources?

Topgun 30-06 is referring to the organization "Sportsmen For Wildlife".

 

[OriginalOscar]

I'd wager a bet that with that previous post you're an SFW member because the way the DWR and SFW are in bed together along with the wildlife board there is no way that the majority of people in the know that don't belong to the SFW would make that last statement you made!

RMEF since 89; no SFW. I love you out of state experts. Don't know what you don't know; and worse you know you know!

AlaskaHunter - Yes DWR refers to Division of Wildlife Resources.

 

[shoots-straight]

Reading that gave me a aneurysm.:W:

 

[Topgun 30-06]

The Utah DWR and SFW are the laughing stock of the western states with more auction and raffle tags than all the other states put together and in the last go around where the RMEF lost the right to the Convention tags in their bid that was so much better it was blatantly ridiculous. Now with the Wildlife Board voting to extend that contract for 5 years the people of Utah are screwed for the next ten years unless the Board changes and would vote to change the way they do business. With the corruption there that goes all the way to the Governor's Office I hope none of the Utah citizens hold their breath waiting for those changes that probably aren't coming the way the Utah politics go.

 

[utahminer]

RMEF since 89; no SFW. I love you out of state experts. Don't know what you don't know; and worse you know you know!

AlaskaHunter - Yes DWR refers to Division of Wildlife Resources.

Dukes - Thanks for the reply. I will admit, I was a little surprised to see someone with your opinion as the first reply; which is great. It made me think more before responding. I would really like to better understand your position on why you feel its run well (Feel free to PM me if you feel that would be more constructive. As much as I appreciate people sharing my opinion on Hunttalk I fee l at times we are too quick to attack another's opinion before trying to understanding why they have developed that opinion - just a small sample size of politics today).

I have had some pretty negative experiences with a couple divisions inside the DNR, including the DWR, (seems to be a little systemic) and hence I have pretty negative view of the DWR leadership. Your comment DID make me think about how hard it would be to be the head of DWR in Utah. The political climate in Utah would be very difficult to navigate and you would have to pick you battles or you would quickly find yourself out of a job and not have the ability to influence. I personaly have been put in a similar situation at work where I feel a company is going the wrong way and I have questioned if it would be better for me to leave or stay and continue to influence what I can. This process of picking your battles can lead many to believe that you are fine with the current status, while in reality you are fighting to make change. There are some great people that work in all the DNR divisions and want to do the right thing. Matter of fact I am friends with one of the former heads of DNR and she is a wonderful person who has provided me a lot of insight. The Utah run agencies face some huge problems, most notable - budget. Several years ago it was brought to my attention that many of US that sit on the right hand side of the aisle become frustrated with government agencies while trying to get things approved and feel that the agency is overstepping its bounds and should be reined in. The logical answer at the time seems to be that the agency should have its budget cut so that its lean and does not "meddle" in unneeded affairs. When in reality the process is difficult because there are far too few people with enough technical background to make decisions (I have some very specific example I could get into, but will save everyone the time). Then when you take into account the wages that state employees are paid you realize that very rarely are you going to be dealing with the best and brightest minds in their respective fields (once again I have some very specific examples that I will spare the audience). I agree with Top Gun that the good old boy system, that runs all the way to the Governor's office, really causes many of these problems and until the general voting population of Utah begins to educate themselves on issues and change voting habits, things will not improve and only get worse.

I created this post because I think there is a lot of hearsay on issues and I would love to see if anyone has any insight on Sheenan as a person (Dukes if you do, I would love to hear it). Do you think he has been forced to "bob and weave" his way through the Utah politics to fight for a greater good or does he believe that the Utah system is the right direction for wildlife? I struggle with Utah's stance on landowner tags, auction tags, the partnership with SFW, pet projects of some DWR agents, not recognizing DWR agents that are causing cancer inside certain regional offices and the list goes on. So, from the surface having Sheenan moved to a federal office seems like a bad move to me, but I could be more educated on the topic.

 

[Ben Lamb]

RMEF since 89; no SFW. I love you out of state experts. Don't know what you don't know; and worse you know you know!

AlaskaHunter - Yes DWR refers to Division of Wildlife Resources.

And that's why I don't have an opinion on it. Don't know the guy & am more than happy to judge him on his performance now that he's at interior.

UT does scare me for several reasons, not the least of which is the unholy obsession with whacking carnivores, but whatever.

 

[utahminer]

UT does scare me for several reasons, not the least of which is the unholy obsession with whacking carnivores, but whatever.

Please elaborate. Are you talking about the coyote bounty? The number of tags issued for bears and mtn lions?
Please don't see me as someone trying to argue. I really would like to understand your opinion.
Thanks

 

[Ben Lamb]

Please elaborate. Are you talking about the coyote bounty? The number of tags issued for bears and mtn lions?
Please don't see me as someone trying to argue. I really would like to understand your opinion.
Thanks

Broader than that. Yes, I think bounty programs are a huge black eye for hunter-conservationists as it portrays us as only wanting critters that we can hunt (ungulates) and the program isn't really rooted in credible science.

Primarily, it's the amount of money that the state of Utah is putting in to wildlife politics across the west to influence programs that favor unethical treatment of large carnivores such as bears, wolves & lions (The BS Refuge issue in AK is a good example, as is the attempts of BGF & SFW to influence western state legislatures to screw scientific management of wildlife for anti-predator causes). The UT political approach of Endangered Species issues is unethical as well, by seeking to put politics ahead of science such as their attacks on the Sage Grouse plans, BLM 2.0, etc - which Zinke is blithley going along with and couple that with some bad scars left from when UT tried to undermine MT & ID's management of wolves because SFW, BGF & the UT Legislature attempted to purchase a senate seat in MT after attempting to kill the Simpson-Tester wolf delisting rider means the sour taste of UT tends to outweigh many of the very good habitat programs UT does well.

If we really want to take politics out of wildlife management, looking to UT is not how you do that.

But again, this guy may surprise us once he's out of Peay's direct line of oversight.

 

[JLS]

Broader than that. Yes, I think bounty programs are a huge black eye for hunter-conservationists as it portrays us as only wanting critters that we can hunt (ungulates) and the program isn't really rooted in credible science.

Primarily, it's the amount of money that the state of Utah is putting in to wildlife politics across the west to influence programs that favor unethical treatment of large carnivores such as bears, wolves & lions (The BS Refuge issue in AK is a good example, as is the attempts of BGF & SFW to influence western state legislatures to screw scientific management of wildlife for anti-predator causes). The UT political approach of Endangered Species issues is unethical as well, by seeking to put politics ahead of science such as their attacks on the Sage Grouse plans, BLM 2.0, etc - which Zinke is blithley going along with and couple that with some bad scars left from when UT tried to undermine MT & ID's management of wolves because SFW, BGF & the UT Legislature attempted to purchase a senate seat in MT after attempting to kill the Simpson-Tester wolf delisting rider means the sour taste of UT tends to outweigh many of the very good habitat programs UT does well.

If we really want to take politics out of wildlife management, looking to UT is not how you do that.

But again, this guy may surprise us once he's out of Peay's direct line of oversight.

Well stated Ben, as usual.

 

[OriginalOscar]

At one time I had heard from a trusted source that Don Peay and the head of the Utah DWR (Sheehan) were hunting buddies; which really made my skin crawl. Does anyone have any info to substantiate this? Please provide your thoughts and educate me a little more on the subject.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/2053-sheehan.html

Asking internet trolls to substantiate something you heard isn't how I would suggest learning about someone.

PM send. Hopefully we can grab coffee or a beer.

 

[tjones]

Asking internet trolls to substantiate something you heard isn't how I would suggest learning about someone.

PM send. Hopefully we can grab coffee or a beer.

Doesn't calling guys posting on the same thread as you "internet trolls" make you an "internet troll?"

 

[OriginalOscar]

Doesn't calling guys posting on the same thread as you "internet trolls" make you an "internet troll?"

Good point! Guess it does. As penance I'll buy UtahMiners beverage if we connect.

Ben, Where you at on hunting wolves? Lots of folks see delisting and hunting as unethical.

Troy Rushton

 

[tjones]

I know Ben can speak for himself, but he was in the thick of it and very instrumental in getting wolves delisted.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Good point! Guess it does. As penance I'll buy UtahMiners beverage if we connect.

Ben, Where you at on hunting wolves? Lots of folks see delisting and hunting as unethical.

Troy Rushton

Troy,

I worked my ass off, along with so many others on this board and in MT, to get the Simpson-Tester delisting rider passed.

Hell, I even helped write one of the first drafts.

Happy to go in to more detail on what I've done to get wolves delisted in both MT & WY since 2002 if you want.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I know Ben can speak for himself, but he was in the thick of it and very instrumental in getting wolves delisted.

As were you my friend.

 

[utahminer]

Broader than that. Yes, I think bounty programs are a huge black eye for hunter-conservationists as it portrays us as only wanting critters that we can hunt (ungulates) and the program isn't really rooted in credible science.

Primarily, it's the amount of money that the state of Utah is putting in to wildlife politics across the west to influence programs that favor unethical treatment of large carnivores such as bears, wolves & lions (The BS Refuge issue in AK is a good example, as is the attempts of BGF & SFW to influence western state legislatures to screw scientific management of wildlife for anti-predator causes). The UT political approach of Endangered Species issues is unethical as well, by seeking to put politics ahead of science such as their attacks on the Sage Grouse plans, BLM 2.0, etc - which Zinke is blithley going along with and couple that with some bad scars left from when UT tried to undermine MT & ID's management of wolves because SFW, BGF & the UT Legislature attempted to purchase a senate seat in MT after attempting to kill the Simpson-Tester wolf delisting rider means the sour taste of UT tends to outweigh many of the very good habitat programs UT does well.

If we really want to take politics out of wildlife management, looking to UT is not how you do that.

But again, this guy may surprise us once he's out of Peay's direct line of oversight.

Ben
Thanks. I have worried about the optics as well and appreciate the way you put it into words. From the Hunttalk podcasts I was familiar with SFW meddling in the Montana wolf legislation, but you opened my eyes to more issues through out west.