Too much success, too early?

[utah400elk]

I am working my son into hunting. We actually leave today for his elk hunt. He was able to draw a Colorado youth muzzleloader cow hunt. It should be fun and a great experience.

So far…he has been able to take

6.5 foot Gator on draw hunt in FL. (Not a trophy but very fun)

spike whitetail with muzzleloader in FL.

Cow elk in Utah on youth hunt (last year operation Condor)

smallish Gar while bow fishing on Potomac

and this years cow hunt (with a bear tag as well)

He will go on my NM Unit 15 bull hunt. We keep putting him for draw units but I am introducing him through cow hunts and non-trophy hunts. I believe at his age the entire experience is what matters. He wants to shoot a big bull/buck but was thrilled to take a co last year.

 

[RemingtonRules]

I had my first deer tag at 13 and I got the most marginal stand on the property. I watched a lot of chickadees, nuthatches, and red squirrels…for 5 years. I saw my first live deer with a rifle in my hand at age 18 when I had been upgraded to a better stand after chopping a lot of firewood, doing dishes, and otherwise being the camp helper.

Grouse hunting was in the same vein. I walked behind the adults who walked behind the dogs. If there was a late flush at the back I got to shoot, but mostly I did a lot of walking and watching.

Adults back then had the right idea. The lessons were that you if you want something you have to work hard, be patient, and earn it. No handouts, and no participation trophies.

I’m going to do the same thing with my kids and hunting, even if every last one of my kid’s friends’ parents are cutting them to the front of the line to get some huge meaningless reward.

I will say my experience was different. I was not coddled but I was treated to having a good spot on the dove field or on the covey rise. I have a passion for the outdoors and fond memories growing up. Somehow I caught the bigger fish and shot respectable deer. But that was because I was up early and stayed late. I was just in it all the time. I could shoot with the best of them on a dove hunt, quail were a little more challenging. I was not immune to fun ribbing if I was off a day. I could not imagine having a kid in the back row to observe if they were ready for the hunt.

 

[Sask hunter]

I think they don’t appreciate it or realize what they have. An ex gf I got her a 55.5” moose as a first moose 15 minutes into opener. My gf first bear was a 20 7/16 after three nights hunting. Neither of them will probably top either of those animals

 

[Sytes]

Without parents, seems my buddies and I wandered through time as follows:

Youth (H.S.) it was ducks, quail, etc. Shotguns in the back window of our pickups.
Moved into deer and had good times though typically single day treks.
Then the wild wapiti! THAT really made the difference for us. Boys (and gals on occasions) stepped into the world of multi day treks. Hanging around the fire and simply enjoying what I believe to be the true spirit of, "The hunt".
Moved into deep wilderness hunting and yet - it was the camaraderie that kept us enjoying the hunt.

Great bucks and bulls with the various racks. It was pretty awesome when one hammered a 6x...

We've gone our various directions. College seems to alter our course.

I don't think those who hammered a nice one off the bat changed course... we were all about hanging out, laughing, packing, the wilderness roughness, etc.

 

[npaden]

I agree with several who have focused on the experience the kid has and not the actual size of the animal taken.

Adversity is a word a lot of kids have never even heard of let alone experienced and it is something that is good for their development for sure but it is nice to have some actual success as well.

When it comes to a kid taking to hunting long term, I don't think it has a lot to do with the size of the animal taken.

 

[Henry22]

I don’t have any qualms about a new hunter shooting a big animal. Most new hunters I know are happy to shoot the first legal animal they see and if it happens to be a big one good for them. Having a memorable outdoor experience is the goal though.

I think what matters more is how the people that surround the hunter react, both those they are hunting with and friends and family. Young hunters can be easily influenced and negative or indifferent opinions can do so much harm, especially from peers. It’s a bad feeling doing something your proud of and your friends not understanding the accomplishment. On the flip side, having friends that congratulate and encourage brings a kid so much joy and keeps the desire burning.

 

[OntarioHunter]

This one is tough for me. I grew up doing an annual dove hunt from the age of 12 through highschool since my dad gave up big game hunting long before I could go with him. I loved it but always wanted to hunt big game. The past 3 years (starting at age 28) I've been doing my best at big game hunting (pigs, deer, I'll throw in turkeys too) and have only killed one pig. It can be discouraging as a newer hunter to put a lot of effort, miles, and time into something and never kill anything let alone see anything. Although I think jr trophy hunts are a little overboard, the opportunity to hunt a unit with better odds may help keep kids interested.

My fear is that by the time my son is old enough to take hunting he'll be over it due to my lack of skill and opportunity.

Hang in there. Sounds like your boy is still quite young. Get him started and let him take it from there. My dad got me started but truth be told he did little mentoring. Too busy working rotating shifts and building a big house. He also had four boys who kept him spread thin. By the time I was 20 I was already way ahead of him in the hunting game. And he couldn't have been happier. He enjoyed my accomplishments probably more than me. He didn't have to gut them.

 

[Ben Long]

This one is tough for me. I grew up doing an annual dove hunt from the age of 12 through highschool since my dad gave up big game hunting long before I could go with him. I loved it but always wanted to hunt big game. The past 3 years (starting at age 28) I've been doing my best at big game hunting (pigs, deer, I'll throw in turkeys too) and have only killed one pig. It can be discouraging as a newer hunter to put a lot of effort, miles, and time into something and never kill anything let alone see anything. Although I think jr trophy hunts are a little overboard, the opportunity to hunt a unit with better odds may help keep kids interested.

My fear is that by the time my son is old enough to take hunting he'll be over it due to my lack of skill and opportunity.

Brandon270. My dad and I hunted a ton together and we rarely took home game. It made the successes more memorable. I bet if you focus on the experience over the kill, your son will appreciate the time he spent with you, even if it turns out hunting isn't his bag. Good luck!

 

[noharleyyet]

I hunted mostly birds growing up. My dad fought in Europe during WWII and wouldn't touch a firearm so centerfire fur didn't come until later. My 10 year old son's exuberance for rifle deer is what hooked me for life. I don't think big inched antlers spoil most people...but it definitely moves the goal post, and there's not a thing wrong with that.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Too many people with the reins that are sure that parents would fill their kids tags given the chance. So, automatically we assume parents as poachers?

I've met very few people who adhere to everylaw... Most people aren't going to rob their neighbor but will speed. I think there are a lot of people who wouldn't poach a sheep, but might take a shot if their son/daughter missed their first at a sheep, or who might even hunt the tag themselves and think it wasn't a big deal.

Also... Is any 10 year old really packing in their camp by themselves, killing an animal, breaking it down by themselves, and packing it out? Paying for the tag, actually applying for the tag, driving/flying themselves to the unit? What is the kid actually doing other than pulling the trigger? Are they even doing 20% of the work it takes to hunt? Does it matter, is it different that a lot of guided experiences? Not sure.

I'm all for kids in AK getting to hunt OTC sheep, but drawing a permit tag.... I'm not sure. I think when you have a very limited resource you need to consider allocation, and I'm not sure a 10 year old with 50 years of hunting ahead of them should be at the front of the line.

Generally speaking I think delayed gratification is one of the most important skills a person can learn, I'm not sure how one teaches their kids that... but I think that's what we should strive for.

When I read stories like @neffa3s hunts with his daughter I think... that's they way I want to hunt with my kids. Those are the kind of experience I hope lots of kids get to have.

 

[noharleyyet]

I'mma hang up and listen...

 

[2rocky]

I will admit that some of the Private hunting clubs do play a vital role in getting kids into hunting from the social aspect in it and the structure of how a kid gets started big game hunting. I recall getting paired with my grandfather on a stand, as did other kids my age. We were actively mentored, and had examples to follow. It might have been a couple years before I got to sit a stand by myself, and a couple more before I got to run brush.

 

[Bambistew]

I've met very few people who adhere to everylaw... Most people aren't going to rob their neighbor but will speed. I think there are a lot of people who wouldn't poach a sheep, but might take a shot if their son/daughter missed their first at a sheep, or who might even hunt the tag themselves and think it wasn't a big deal.

Also... Is any 10 year old really packing in their camp by themselves, killing an animal, breaking it down by themselves, and packing it out? Paying for the tag, actually applying for the tag, driving/flying themselves to the unit? What is the kid actually doing other than pulling the trigger? Are they even doing 20% of the work it takes to hunt? Does it matter, is it different that a lot of guided experiences? Not sure.

I'm all for kids in AK getting to hunt OTC sheep, but drawing a permit tag.... I'm not sure. I think when you have a very limited resource you need to consider allocation, and I'm not sure a 10 year old with 50 years of hunting ahead of them should be at the front of the line.

Generally speaking I think delayed gratification is one of the most important skills a person can learn, I'm not sure how one teaches their kids that... but I think that's what we should strive for.

When I read stories like @neffa3s hunts with his daughter I think... that's they way I want to hunt with my kids. Those are the kind of experience I hope lots of kids get to have.

What makes you think it isn't a big deal? Getting caught poaching in AK will cost you $$$, and potentially loss of everything you used on that hunt, lost hunting privileges, etc. There is no more or less enticement to shoot your kids animal than there is your buddies.

You really think that a parent that goes through the effort in paragraph two is going to pull the trigger just for the satisfaction of killing an animal for their kid? Hint, hunting isn't just about killing an animal to a lot of people, especially for hunters who are helping others. Seeing your kid be successful is far more rewarding than doing it for them. Youth success is about 15%, DIY residents is ~25%, and guided is ~80%. The kids are hunting 10 days before the general season opens, and the sheep haven't seen anyone since the year prior. Its by far the easiest time to kill one, yet success is very low.

My kids will pack what they can pack, I'll take the rest. Does it matter? Is that what equates to deserving a tag and/or a hunt? Doing everything, including finding your own spot to go, and not relying on others hard earned intel and experience on the ground as well? Did you buddy pack out all his goat, break it all down? If you're wondering, no, I wouldn't take my kids goat hunting in, and goats are dumb. I'm just busting your balls, BTW, except for the goat part.

My kids love packing, prepping, setting up camp, cutting meat, gutting fish, etc. Pulling the trigger isn't the only thing they'll be doing, that's a fact. I think its easy to assume that they'd just be pulling the trigger, given your enthusiasm and knowledge of how much work goes into a remote hunt, and how much could a kid possibly do? I appreciate that you understand the effort required, but if you have kids you'll understand on a whole other level.

Its going to be awesome to see my kids drop a big ass ram(s). But what will be even more awesome will be the epic whining from all the "deserving" hunters.

A little known fact about draw tag envy in Alaska. About 40%+/- of all draw tags are not even hunted. It doesn't matter if its a Tok sheep tag or a cow moose. We can't possibly be define it by age/experience (delayed satisfaction?) if nearly half the people that draw a tag don't even hunt them. How much less/more deserving is a kid than nearly half the hunting population?

 

[NR_Hunter]

When a kid starts thinking he can give confidently give me advice in absolutes in their first few seasons, he's had too much success too early.

 

[noharleyyet]

What makes you think it isn't a big deal? Getting caught poaching in AK will cost you $$$, and potentially loss of everything you used on that hunt, lost hunting privileges, etc. There is no more or less enticement to shoot your kids animal than there is your buddies.

You really think that a parent that goes through the effort in paragraph two is going to pull the trigger just for the satisfaction of killing an animal for their kid? Hint, hunting isn't just about killing an animal to a lot of people, especially for hunters who are helping others. Seeing your kid be successful is far more rewarding than doing it for them. Youth success is about 15%, DIY residents is ~25%, and guided is ~80%. The kids are hunting 10 days before the general season opens, and the sheep haven't seen anyone since the year prior. Its by far the easiest time to kill one, yet success is very low.

My kids will pack what they can pack, I'll take the rest. Does it matter? Is that what equates to deserving a tag and/or a hunt? Doing everything, including finding your own spot to go, and not relying on others hard earned intel and experience on the ground as well? Did you buddy pack out all his goat, break it all down? If you're wondering, no, I wouldn't take my kids goat hunting in, and goats are dumb. I'm just busting your balls, BTW, except for the goat part.

My kids love packing, prepping, setting up camp, cutting meat, gutting fish, etc. Pulling the trigger isn't the only thing they'll be doing, that's a fact. I think its easy to assume that they'd just be pulling the trigger, given your enthusiasm and knowledge of how much work goes into a remote hunt, and how much could a kid possibly do? I appreciate that you understand the effort required, but if you have kids you'll understand on a whole other level.

Its going to be awesome to see my kids drop a big ass ram(s). But what will be even more awesome will be the epic whining from all the "deserving" hunters.

A little known fact about draw tag envy in Alaska. About 40%+/- of all draw tags are not even hunted. It doesn't matter if its a Tok sheep tag or a cow moose. We can't possibly be define it by age/experience (delayed satisfaction?) if nearly half the people that draw a tag don't even hunt them. How much less/more deserving is a kid than nearly half the hunting population?

You're letting Buzz proofread your posts again...

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'm all for getting kids into hunting early. But I cringe a little when I see a youngster with a trophy animal on his/her first season or so. I wonder, will they be hooked for life? Or will they have unrealistic expectations going forward? I think back on my school-days hunting buddies. I hunted several season for my first deer and was proud of a doe. Another friend had a lucky charm and killed two big mule deer, a bull elk and a moose before high school graduation. We are both still hunting hard as we can, 30+ years later. What's your experience in this regard?

It hooked me. I got a terrific whitetail buck my 2nd season. I shot a doe my first day hunting and saw that very buck just after shooting the doe. Kicked myself for an entire year for killing the doe and using my A tag for it. Getting that buck the next year was definitely part of what hooked me for life.

 

[marshman]

I started my daughter on chukar...

Mine got going on waterfowl and really never looked back.
He is more successful than me now.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You really think that a parent that goes through the effort in paragraph two is going to pull the trigger just for the satisfaction of killing an animal for their kid?

100% yes. Buck fever does crazy shit to people. I'm sure if you talk to any warden they would say party hunting tags is a common violation.

My kids will pack what they can pack, I'll take the rest. Does it matter? Is that what equates to deserving a tag and/or a hunt? Doing everything, including finding your own spot to go, and not relying on others hard earned intel and experience on the ground as well? Did you buddy pack out all his goat, break it all down? If you're wondering, no, I wouldn't take my kids goat hunting in, and goats are dumb. I'm just busting your balls, BTW, except for the goat part.

Totally, I bet a lot of kids who go with parents DIY do more of the 'work' than folks who go guided.

A little known fact about draw tag envy in Alaska. About 40%+/- of all draw tags are not even hunted. It doesn't matter if its a Tok sheep tag or a cow moose. We can't possibly be define it by age/experience (delayed satisfaction?) if nearly half the people that draw a tag don't even hunt them. How much less/more deserving is a kid than nearly half the hunting population?

100% In my mind kids at a certain age (whatever the big game age in your state is) should be allowed to apply in the draw like everyone else.

Youth trophy tag preference is straight up the stupidest thing ever, so there are 4000 people applying for 10 tags and we are going to give 2 of them to kids for what reason?

 

[Bambistew]

100% yes. Buck fever does crazy shit to people. I'm sure if you talk to any warden they would say party hunting tags is a common violation.

So what you're saying is that there shouldn't be some exception for kids/parents because its can happen to any demographic? I agree. Why do we have to penalize kids/parents but not others? Did you know that a guide can finish off a clients animal? I've heard from the horse many times of it happening. Now they didn't shoot first, but still a gray area, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So what you're saying is that there shouldn't be some exception for kids/parents because its can happen to any demographic? I agree. Why do we have to penalize kids/parents but not others? Did you know that a guide can finish off a clients animal? I've heard from the horse many times of it happening. Now they didn't shoot first, but still a gray area, IMO.

Party hunting is illegal in most states, with some exceptions. Finishing off animals... sure grey area. ( I do think there are more, kid shoots 3 times and misses every time and then parent shoots, then there are client shoots 3 times and misses and then guide shoots incidents)

My primary point is no preference or discriminations for anyone, there shouldn't be a special draw for 65 year olds either, if you get into the point game late, tough.

Circling back to Ben's point, I don't think shooting a 'trophy' animal early is net good or bad for kids or really anyone. My buddy shot an awesome goat on his second tag ever, I doubt that will have much of an effect on his hunting trajectory, not sure it would have mattered if he was 14 or 34.

I do think that putting all the value on the trophy and not on all the other aspects of the hunt is detrimental to hunters and I think that it is the responsibility of parents and to some extent us all to teach young hunters (both age and experience) that it's not all about the antlers.

In general the high value of horns and hides is what leads some to very poor decisions.