throwing good app money after bad and repeat

[Khunter]

anymore it seems just like burning hard earned cash as apply for OIL tag$ around the West. Heck event the “regular” species for some states.

Yet keep on doing it.

Anybody else take a moment of reflection as they throw good money away on Montana, sheep, goat, moose, bison, tags, and pretty much anything in Nevada, pick your state etc. etc. etc.

 

[Mallardsx2]

It’s like crack to some people.

 

[TheTone]

Already wondering what I’ll spend my next refund on

 

[Doublecluck]

Y’all never gonna draw. Quit applying. Save your money and go to Tajikistan or Siberia or something. Take up golf.

 

[brownbear932008]

I actually sat down a few years ago and thought this over. Dropped three states altogether at that time and I'm working my way out of two or three more as we speak on many species.

 

[jt13]

It's one part future hunt planning and another part degenerate gambling

 

[Buschy]

Kirby,

I have had the moment of reflection many times in the last year or two. Honestly, I don't see much positive on the horizon for DIY, public-land big game hunting. Those on the site can beat me up if they want to, but that is what I see after doing this for the last 30 years. I am strategically burning points across the west, am pulling out of many OIL and limited draws that no longer make sense to apply for, and will be focusing on more fishing and bird hunting in the next 5-10 years. Your post resonates with me.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Look at the odds vs application fees. It makes sense to cut some states and just play certain raffles.

 

[Treeshark]

Heck event the “regular” species for some states.

For OIL, it’s tough to give up because between the draws and raffles that’s kind of it. Low-odds game no matter how you slice it. But yeah, there is a point where it just becomes stupid.

For the “regular” species, I am beginning to see things the same way you do in some instances- that money is probably better put towards an alternate way of getting a tag- that way you can decide exactly when/where you go rather than playing draw roulette.

 

[npaden]

In some ways Wyoming made it easier for me this year. With Bison going to $6,500, the convenience fee was going to be $163 and having a whopping zero tags in the random draw for Sheep I didn't apply for a OIL tag in Wyoming for the first time in 15 years.

Idaho got $300ish for less than a 1% chance at a Bighorn Sheep tag. That's pretty much like taking the money and lighting it on fire. Not the smartest thing but at least there is a chance, not like Wyoming with truly a zero % chance.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Im going to pay otc non-res deer in TX. Because that’s how deer should be permitted.

 

[Big Fin]

I'm out on the following, and for some I have been out for a long time (I don't see myself getting back in at my age):

WY - M, G, S, Bison
CO - M, G, S
MT - M, G
NM - Deer, S
UT - Bison (drew)
OR - everything
ID - M
AK - S, G

When I look at why I bailed, there are many reasons. It's partly because I had my chance and once was enough. It's also an allocation of my budget and what the minuscule likelihood of drawing is. The biggest reason is mostly due to herd numbers declining for every species I have bailed on. And there are declines in some species I've not yet to bail on. That's the big warning sign for me.

Lately, I've spent a lot of time researching the 25-40 year trends of most species across most the states. With the exception of elk, the trend is disturbing. Sheep, Shiras moose, mule deer, pronghorn (in all but NV), mountain goats, showing long-term trends (in most states) that scare the crap out of me. Not because of my need for a tag at this point in my life, but because I want those species to prosper long after I'm gone. That concerns me more than anything we argue about in the offseason.

There's a ton of work to do on the habitat conservation for all those species in all those states, even if I don't hunt them. I find myself in this interesting study of the human behaviors, including my own, as to why I/we seek or apply simple/inexpensive solutions to what are very complex habitat issues. I guess that effort to find the simplest solution is part of the human condition, even if it's as plain as day that the long-term future for hunting and wildlife is in the difficult/expensive work of habitat conservation and improvement; work that requires a decade or two to see the results.

 

[brymoore]

Idaho got $300ish for less than a 1% chance at a Bighorn Sheep tag. That's pretty much like taking the money and lighting it on fire. Not the smartest thing but at least there is a chance, not like Wyoming with truly a zero % chance.

I know a few NRs that have draw. Sheep tags in Idaho.

 

[seeth07]

I was disturbed last year when I looked at the end of the app season, after all refunds came back, and saw the final line spent on apps alone (not drawn tags) for my wife and I. In the past, I've always felt the "pay to play" cost in apps spread across the west to try and secure high quality/rare/low hunter competition tags was always worth it if we hit on one or two of those random chances and for almost a decade now we have had our names in enough hats to at least secure one and it has worked out. However, the cost to pay is borderline approaching a NM unit wide elk tag or a trip to South Africa for us.

This year the final line for apps is going to increase more than any prior year. At what point are we just going to bow out and pursue other avenues for hunting experiences? I feel we are getting close.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

I was disturbed last year when I looked at the end of the app season, after all refunds came back, and saw the final line spent on apps alone (not drawn tags) for my wife and I. In the past, I've always felt the "pay to play" cost in apps spread across the west to try and secure high quality/rare/low hunter competition tags was always worth it if we hit on one or two of those random chances and for almost a decade now we have had our names in enough hats to at least secure one and it has worked out. However, the cost to pay is borderline approaching a NM unit wide elk tag or a trip to South Africa for us.

This year the final line for apps is going to increase more than any prior year. At what point are we just going to bow out and pursue other avenues for hunting experiences? I feel we are getting close.

I highly recommend South Africa where they really do invest your fees back into conservation.

 

[Bullshot]

I have been getting much more back into fishing, local archery, and local muzzleloader than in the recent past. I think its like anything, you “sense” the need for change before you “decide” to change. Then, the change feels natural.

Spending thousands of dollars on app fees in multiple states and drawing very little in return is becoming unsustainable (well, always was!). It’s also pretty crazy that things got this way. I used to occasionally apply here OR there for the 1st 20 years of my western hunting. Then the dam broke and it became apply Everywhere…. OR ELSE. I am getting tired. I will never meet my original life hunting goals. My “hobby” has measurably and negatively impacted my savings and general lifestyle, thus my family’s too. Makes me sad but yes, we are witnessing the end of an era I think. As I draw some upcoming tags, I will drop out of some opportunities. As I age +1 each year, I will slowly probably change priorities. In 15-20 years, doubtful I’ll be applying for much of anything except maybe some last bucket list stuff… Then…. MORE FISHING!

 

[jrabq]

I considered dropping NV this year, but stayed in I guess because it gives me a 1% chance of drawing a desert bighorn tag, maybe. Yes, the total application costs to apply in most western states has gotten absurd, but at my age I'll just keep spending my kid's inheritance . I have dropped a few things like Wyoming moose since they changed the quota, but still burn a lot of money on apps with <1% odds. I've been fortunate to draw several tags with those type of odds so it doesn't feel like such a waste.

If I was younger and still had kids at home I would probably scale back more.

 

[TheTone]

Some of the thoughts expressed here are why I have had so much issue with the big R3 push groups have made in recent years. When you just keep recruiting but aren’t doing anything to make opportunities more accessible something gives and one of the ways is seems to is by having people that were already invested lose interest and drop out. I’ve got a couple friends that have given up things they used to love, mainly elk hunting and shed hunting, in the past few years because they were getting tired of all the new, increased competition

I know I look at my points differently now than I did when I started building. It used to be a desire for something really big; now it just tends to be something different and a higher quality experience than I get on general tags

 

[seeth07]

It used to be a desire for something really big; now it just tends to be something different and a higher quality experience than I get on general tags

10 years ago, it used to be that only the "trophy" level hunts took 10 plus points. I was always fine with that because I often focused on 5 to 10ish range where the hope was the hunt would be either unique from something like a general tag or have better populations or less hunters. Reality is now in a lot of places those are reaching that 10 point level

 

[brymoore]

At what point are we just going to bow out and pursue other avenues for hunting experiences? I feel we are getting close.

I’m close to this. I plan to hunt my own state every year. Any NR drawsI are a bonus hunt. I’ve been dropping out of some of the draws. I drew a few NR elk tags and won’t buy more points for those tags again. I keep looking at Utah and know the truth that I should drop the state. I look at all my sheep points in various states and know statistically I won’t draw. I just haven’t manned up yet.