The future of Preference Points

[BenInMT]

Look the only reason I don’t want to end outfitting is that they are too powerful a lobby tied to wealthy landowners. We will never end then but we can instead throw them a bone while still reducing demand.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Are you one of those guys trying to figure out how to fill and film 6 different bull tags this year? I speak for many a western hunter when I say we are fed up with the pretend hunters/huntresses, social media wanna be influencers, elk schools and training courses, YouTube nerds, tough guy protein powder companies specifically formulated for hunting. Bunch of posers trying to hawk something to make a buck off of what some of us learned on our own over the course of decades. Now all the whining about not being able to get a tag. Maybe that’s because your favorite “influencer” has 6 bull tags this year. Maybe that’s because of all these services selling everything from application strategy to GPS locations. Maybe just maybe Newberg himself shoulders some blame for where we are. Kind of hard to hawk this dream for dollars and then not own responsibility for what we all seem to regard as the end of western hunting like we knew it.

I will reiterate, we need to end NR hunting across the west, except when outfitted. Anything else is just bandaids on a head wound. Don’t like it pack up your stuff and become a stakeholder in a western state.

Dumb. Extra Dumb.

Look the only reason I don’t want to end outfitting is that they are too powerful a lobby tied to wealthy landowners. We will never end then but we can instead throw them a bone while still reducing demand.

You have some decent opinions, but some really stupid ideas.

 

[SaskHunter]

Are you one of those guys trying to figure out how to fill and film 6 different bull tags this year? I speak for many a western hunter when I say we are fed up with the pretend hunters/huntresses, social media wanna be influencers, elk schools and training courses, YouTube nerds, tough guy protein powder companies specifically formulated for hunting. Bunch of posers trying to hawk something to make a buck off of what some of us learned on our own over the course of decades. Now all the whining about not being able to get a tag. Maybe that’s because your favorite “influencer” has 6 bull tags this year. Maybe that’s because of all these services selling everything from application strategy to GPS locations. Maybe just maybe Newberg himself shoulders some blame for where we are. Kind of hard to hawk this dream for dollars and then not own responsibility for what we all seem to regard as the end of western hunting like we knew it.

I will reiterate, we need to end NR hunting across the west, except when outfitted. Anything else is just bandaids on a head wound. Don’t like it pack up your stuff and become a stakeholder in a western state.

Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
No!

 

[WapitiBob]

Kind of hard to hawk this dream for dollars and then not own responsibility for what we all seem to regard as the end of western hunting like we knew it.

You haven't been around long if you think hunting suddenly changed with the invent of youtube.

 

[DFS]

Ben makes some good points. It is hard to see the work you put in to figure things out get put all over YouTube and the internet, especially when wildlife take the brunt of it. I hope we can continue nonresident hunting it’s something I look forward too but I will put wildlife in front of hunting every time. I think the people promoting it need to take a hard look at themselves.

 

[Eric Albus]

nah, if we do any drastic dumbassery we should just end outfitting across the west. that might actually solve some problems.

By ending outfitting we solve what problem?

 

[Eric Albus]

I don't disagree with your final take, but the issue at hand is do you want to buy lottery tickets for the same chance, or let the random draw happen and avoid situations that can get abused for the wealthy & elite hunters?

Agencies love points - it's more cash in their account without much expense in terms of managing those points. HUnters like it because they think they're upping their odds, but in reality they aren't.

I'd rather the 16 year old kid have the same level of sucky chance that the 65 year old dude did. If the issue is a lack of game, then let's grow more game.

Points are not going anywhere, thankfully. Points allow people to plan.

I’m with you on growing more game, and perhaps more is not the answer, just allow more bucks/bulls to reach maturity.

 

[TOGIE]

By ending outfitting we solve what problem?

We neuter a disproportionately powerful private/commercial interest with outsized influence on a public resource.

 

[DFS]

By ending outfitting we solve what problem?

In Montana it would end the push for constantly adding more bull and buck tags. Maybe even help with changing season dates and structure the outfitters have become reliant on.

 

[Shangobango]

Are you one of those guys trying to figure out how to fill and film 6 different bull tags this year?

No. I am trying to kill one mule deer every year. I will eventually go after elk. Right now my interest lies with mule deer.

Now all the whining about not being able to get a tag.

I have gotten a tag out west every year I have applied (one) except last year. Could have easily gotten tags in a number of states for a number of species last year but once I didn’t draw Wyoming pronghorn. I decided just to hunt whitetails.

I will reiterate, we need to end NR hunting across the west, except when outfitted.

No. That is complete BS and solves nothing.

The main issue we have, in my opinion, is that people whine because they can’t get the primo tag they want every few years. There are a pile of tags to be had. Montana residents can buy elk and mule deer tags over the counter right. What’s the problem?

Unless I am missing something, in most States except those with OTC seasons, ( and whatever Montana does) NR tags are capped. Some of the OTC tags are capped too.

If residents want a bigger slice of the pie, fair enough, I don’t blame them. Blaming all the troubles of western hunting on nonresidents is asinine though. The epitome of a red herring.

 

[Bigbuck454]

I'd forfeit every point I have to see everyone on a level playing field across the board. It's simply what's best for the future of hunting.

Agreed

 

[Ben Lamb]

Points are not going anywhere, thankfully. Points allow people to plan.

I’m with you on growing more game, and perhaps more is not the answer, just allow more bucks/bulls to reach maturity.

Point creep is the only predicability here. Especially with the double points for outfitted NR's. That will hurt everyone in the long run, including outfitted clientele.

Regardless, this thread is just a bit of fun. Let's grow more game and make the pie big enough for us all.

 

[DFS]

Regardless, this thread is just a bit of fun. Let's grow more game and make the pie big enough for us all.

Exactly let’s bring more people to the table to grow more game and make things better that is the business model… wait how are we going to do this. Maybe this isn’t fun.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I liked the first part of your post, Ben. Second part, not so much.

Yeah I think Ben may have a good read on the problem, but his solution is a bit off….

 

[Eric Albus]

Point creep is the only predicability here. Especially with the double points for outfitted NR's. That will hurt everyone in the long run, including outfitted clientele.

Regardless, this thread is just a bit of fun. Let's grow more game and make the pie big enough for us all.

The point creep is inevitable I concur. The way the preference Pt will work in Mt with only being able to hold a max of 3 pts will (in theory) flush quick enuf that we will stave off Pt. Creep. Bonus pts are complete different animal. I look at bonus pts as a revenue stream for FWP and no real value to me as an R hunter in the draw, especially for sheep.

 

[Eric Albus]

In Montana it would end the push for constantly adding more bull and buck tags. Maybe even help with changing season dates and structure the outfitters have become reliant on.

The Outfitters with whom I consort are for restructuring seasons and reducing pressure on bucks and bulls.

 

[Chromanz]

Point systems are not cool
My father has 30 points and still can’t draw a tag in WA state for anything

 

[Mallardsx2]

Point systems are not cool
My father has 30 points and still can’t draw a tag in WA state for anything

That’s BS. And you know it.