The environmentalists were right again!

[Ithaca 37]

Another small town realizes it was a mistake to depend on one industry.

"Before the mill closed in May 2001, taking with it 78 jobs, the timber industry dominated Cascade."

http://www.idahostatesman.com/Business/story.asp?ID=48569

 

[Ten Bears]

Hindsight is a great measure, aint it IT?

 

[Ithaca 37]

The environmentalists were pointing out the inevitable to the people of Cascade twenty years ago. They were too dumb to believe it.

Now the same thing is happening to the welfare rancher communities, but they don't believe it. Ten years from now they'll be talking about how they have to diversify their economy.

 

[Ten Bears]

I always thought that the city of Cascade was much older then 20 years?

 

[Michaelr]

 

[1_pointer]

Mike- Thanks for contributing something useful to the discussion....

 

[JoseCuervo]

1-Ptr,

That was funny.... I was laughing at that comment of yours...

 

[1_pointer]

Gunner- Took me a while to come up with my contribution to the topic at hand!

Even my great grandma knew not to put all your eggs in one basket...

 

[Ten Bears]

Towns are built around industries, not industries built within the towns. If a "timber" town is built around timber,why would somebody else want to move an auto plant to the middle of nowhere?

 

[1_pointer]

TB- I'm gonna try to not get into too much of a debate over this, but there is one thing that I have learned in life...things change! If a town is totally dependent on the local timber, it must also be aware that it may not always be available. There are numerous towns from where I'm from that were built around the coal industry. Many of those towns are still there, the residents now have to go elsewhere (in many cases) for employment because the resource dried up. Just part of life. Many of these are now working in a Toyota Plant or Steel Plant that were built in the area. If they wanted to still be mining coal for a living that is still possible, just not in that area. These people can still make a living on timber, but it may not be 'at home'. This is something I recognize and don't shy away from. I'm currently trained as a 'range ecologist'. However, if my wife and I decide to move back to IN I will have to find another career as there is no need for a range ecologist there. I'm willing to change if life calls for that, so why should I (or any of us) not to expect the same from those that made their living in the timber industry?

 

[Ten Bears]

My point is that many people here will fault a community for trying to survive. The west is dotted with ghost towns and failed communities. I know of towns that are nothing more then a couple of crumbled foundations now. Yet, that doesn't change the fact that towns are built around an industry, and Cascade may have some potential for tourism, they will never in the near future be considered for a Toyota plant.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, It all comes down to the fact that there aren't any guarentees in life. The problem with some people like welfare ranchers, loggers and miners is that they think they're entitled to live anywhere they want and have the kind of job they want there. I can't imagine where they got that attitude. It sure doesn't exist in most of the rest of us. Wanna hear about how I've had to move and change my lifestyle a few times? It never occurred to me to whine about it and claim I deserved to have the kinda job and lifestyle provided to me that I would like exactly where I wanted it!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cascade was NOT a timber town originally. It wasn't even the original town there. And the mill came in after the town was there. It wasn't even a town until the railroad came in the 1910's. There were the original towns of Roseberry, which is now just a couple of buildings. Other cities there included Cabarton and Thunder City. Roseberry and Thunder City were there to serve the Mining rush inthe Thunder Mountain district. Just as those towns grew-lived-died, Cascade will have the same options. It can either die or continue living, and my guess is that it will continue living, as it has a nice reservoir, and it is getting better, since the Forest Service started making the Welfare Rancher keep his cows out of the lake.

If you want to read an intersting article on Lumber in Idaho, and why the lumber companies in Idaho have never be too successful, here is the link.

Lumberman History in Idaho

 

[Ithaca 37]

Gunner, Thanks for the great article! Ten Bears, Wrong again, as usual!

 

[Troy Jones]

Ithaca, where do you think the products you use come from. You are use to a certain standard of living. Right? The wood that's in your house, fence, or deck. Where do you suppose that comes from? The coal for industry to produce all the products you are accustom to having. The metal that is in everything from your jewelry, electronics, toilets to your cook wear and automobile. Where do you suppose that comes from? As far as beef, the meat is only one product. How about the leather. Do you have any hunting boots? Not to mention the fats are used for making cosmetics, candels, and plastics to name a few. Anything else goes into bonemeal to feed your household pet. Where do you suppose all that comes from? Even the fuel for your SUV for God sakes. You take all of it away and the only alternative is to buy outside the US. That doesn't sound like a very intelligent solution to me. Where else are all these raw materials suppose to come from? I don't think many of us will lower our standard of living to accomodate it.

That is the bottom line of reality that seems to evade so many. No matter what, everyone either directly or indirectly supports all your evil industries. I guarantee that even the most hardened activist is currently using dozens upon dozens of products that were derived from the very institution that they are trying to shut down.

I'm not saying any of this is good or bad, just a necessary evil as far as most are concerned. Just be careful on your tunnel vision and being so dedicated to taking the rights of others away. You could be next Ithaca... Where does it stop Ithaca? When we have a steril and homogenous society and all we are left with is the memory of the little freedoms we have now. Things such as where we live, the manner in which I make a living, and the right to do as much as I can get away with.

 

[JoseCuervo]

It is a huge stretch of the imagination to think that Ithica's hunting boots were made with the leather of a Welfare Rancher's cow. The vast majority of beef in this country is raised by hard working, risk taking, capitalist acting, ranchers and feeders on Private Ground.

You can take away every Welfare Rancher's permit to graze, and you will still have access to all the French Vanilla candles you need to make your bathroom smell pretty. You will still be able to buy all the cosmetics you need to make yourself presentable after you end the Welfare Rancher's time on public lands.

I am pretty sure that every head of beef that IBP buys from me is used throughout the system.

There is absolutely nothing evil about the ranching industry, and I have yet to see anybody want to shut it down on any of these threads.

 

[1_pointer]

Troy- Couldn't the reverse argument be used also? I mean if we need these things, shouldn't we demand that the industries providing them do so in a manner that is best for the long term health of the resource so that we may benefit more in the long run? Fossil fuels and mineral are exempt due to being non-renewable, but I think that every renewable resource is not. I understand these things are needed and will be for a long time. But, I also know that in many cases the knowledge is out there that allows the production of these resources with less impact to the resource, and therefore me, than is often used.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Troy, Who ever said all those industries have to be abolished? Can you quote anyone saying that? Show me the quotes and then I'll answer your rant.

 

[JoseCuervo]

1-Ptr,
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I mean if we need these things, shouldn't we demand that the industries providing them do so in a manner that is best for the long term health of the resource so that we may benefit more in the long run? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I have to challenge if we really need French Vanilla candles and MaxFactor Moisturizer/Base.

And after seeing the pictures of your feet, I don't know that you should be to worried about the cosmetics. Them's are some UUUUUUUUUUgly dawgs....

I certainly would not permit Welfare Ranching just so we could have access to more purdy smellin' candles....

Troy, have you been able to find a single quote where somebody wanted to end all those industries????

 

[Ithaca 37]

Troy, How many times do we have to remind you that less than 5% of the annual beef consumption in the US comes from welfare ranch cattle? And how many times do we have to tell you about how much beef is imported?

You're trying to make it sound like eliminating public land grazing is going to result in a dire shortage of candles and wrinkle cream!

See, that's why we all know the welfare ranchers are fulla shit and you are too! But I'll make a wager with you----lets imagine we eliminate all welfare ranching and bet on how much the price of candles and wrinkle cream is going to increase. I bet the price would stay exactly the same.

How much do you think the prices would go up?