Some mighty fine company, Kerry in Vietnamese war crime museum
- Thread starter feclnogn
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Muledeer4me
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WOW, Just when I thought my view of him couldnt get any lower.
Ithaca 37
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Amazing, what you find out when you read the whole article! Turns out the picture was taken while he was in Vietnam trying to help locate POW and MIAs.
"on July 17, 1993, a US delegation headed by US Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Hershel Gober, was in Vietnam on a mission sent by President Clinton, to deliver to the Vietnamese microfilm of some 3 million captured Vietnam War documents that pertained to finding American POWs and MIAs. The newspaper states that the mission was scheduled to meet with Communist Party General Secretary Do Muoi..........In the course of pursuing the POW and MIA issue, it is reasonable that Senator Kerry would seek to meet with the communist leaders of Vietnam........"
"on July 17, 1993, a US delegation headed by US Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Hershel Gober, was in Vietnam on a mission sent by President Clinton, to deliver to the Vietnamese microfilm of some 3 million captured Vietnam War documents that pertained to finding American POWs and MIAs. The newspaper states that the mission was scheduled to meet with Communist Party General Secretary Do Muoi..........In the course of pursuing the POW and MIA issue, it is reasonable that Senator Kerry would seek to meet with the communist leaders of Vietnam........"
feclnogn
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This article is about a museum with a section dedicated to..........
Elkhunter
New member
Very good read. Thanks for the link.
The existence of photographs showing Senator Kerry meeting with General Secretary Do Muoi is not in question. In the course of pursuing the POW and MIA issue, it is reasonable that Senator Kerry would seek to meet with the communist leaders of Vietnam. The critical issue is that the Vietnamese communists have chosen to honor Senator Kerry in their War Crimes Museum for his assistance in helping them achieve victory over the United States. The sign outside the entrance to the room where Kerry's photo is displayed reads: "The World Supports Vietnam in its Resistance."
The existence of photographs showing Senator Kerry meeting with General Secretary Do Muoi is not in question. In the course of pursuing the POW and MIA issue, it is reasonable that Senator Kerry would seek to meet with the communist leaders of Vietnam. The critical issue is that the Vietnamese communists have chosen to honor Senator Kerry in their War Crimes Museum for his assistance in helping them achieve victory over the United States. The sign outside the entrance to the room where Kerry's photo is displayed reads: "The World Supports Vietnam in its Resistance."
Ithaca 37
New member
Can anyone tell us exactly what Kerry did that the Vietnamese are honoring him for? Was it protesting against the war when he got home?
If so, there were a lot of other people questioning the wisdom of the war by then.
I think it is very important to understand what Robert McNamara had to say about the war he was a chief planner of. I never had much use for the war protesters at the time, but have had to rethink everything in the last few years.
McNamara's book is very revealing and seems to conclude that we were mistaken in being in that war. Here's a quote: "He says that the war was un-winnable under all scenarios and that the ‘domino theory’ used to justify the war was just plain wrong. "
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-3-2004_pg3_2
So, if the war was "unwinnable under all scenarios", were the returning veterans who protested the war wrong in speaking out against it?
Ever take a look at Vietnam Veterans Against the War?
http://www.vvaw.org/
If so, there were a lot of other people questioning the wisdom of the war by then.
I think it is very important to understand what Robert McNamara had to say about the war he was a chief planner of. I never had much use for the war protesters at the time, but have had to rethink everything in the last few years.
McNamara's book is very revealing and seems to conclude that we were mistaken in being in that war. Here's a quote: "He says that the war was un-winnable under all scenarios and that the ‘domino theory’ used to justify the war was just plain wrong. "
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-3-2004_pg3_2
So, if the war was "unwinnable under all scenarios", were the returning veterans who protested the war wrong in speaking out against it?
Ever take a look at Vietnam Veterans Against the War?
http://www.vvaw.org/
feclnogn
New member
Ithaca, were you in Vietnam?? I have often heard my father refer to McNamara as being responible for the killing of our guys because he put so many restrictions and their ability to fight. Most vets that I know who served during this time think McNamara is a piece of shit. What is your take on the guy????
feclnogn
New member
feclnogn
New member
Here is some visual aid to help you with your questions. See bold quotes above.
Ithaca 37
New member
fecl, At the time, we were assured by the gummint and news media that McNamara was a genius and we were doing the right thing in Vietnam. I was a supporter of the war. I graduated from high school in 1965. The class of '65 had the highest casualty rate in the war. I went to college and graduated from there in '69 and was drafted about six months later. I joined the navy. Just before I went on active duty a huge recruiting scandal broke out and I was given an honorable discharge. The scandal was over false promises that were being made by recruiters because they were having a tough time meeting quotas by then. It turned out that my recruiters had been caught up in the scandal, so I was given a discharge. In those days you were eligible to be drafted again if you had not completed 6 months of active duty, so I was thrown back into the draft pool even though I had a discharge. By then it was becoming real obvious that we weren't going to win the war. Before I was drafted again there was a draft lottery instituted and my birthdate was given a fairly high draft number, just barely high enough so that I wasn't drafted before Nixon and Kissenger started winding down the war and then ended it.
So thru some incredible bureaucratic snafus and political events that coincided I avoided the war. Actually, I was kinda disappointed at being discharged from the navy because by the time I went thru the whole draft process I figured I had a pretty good deal with the navy and was looking forward to traveling around the world and participating in the armed forces. I thought we were right to be in Vietnam and would win the war. I'm convinced now that because of all the politicians that were running the war, we didn't have a chance. There were too many restrictions. You hafta remember, in the 60s most people in the US thought we could win any war we got into.
On the other hand, my best friend had been killed in the Tet offensive and other good friends had been killed in Vietnam and Cambodia. Other friends had returned with serious wounds and another friend had returned home and committed suicide. I was hearing enough stories from returned friends by the late 60s to be starting to seriously question whether we were doing the right thing in Vietnam, but I never was a war protester.
It took a real long time to admit to myself that my friends had been killed in a war that we probably shouldn't have been in. Although it was a "noble cause" as Reagan called it, we probably were wrong to be there. McNamara's book was the final confirmation for me that it was a mistake. Up until then I still had some conviction that we were doing the right thing.
True, the people who were protesting the war made it harder for the people who were in it. On the other hand, it seems we never had a chance of winning it, even if the politicians had stayed out and we had been able to unleash all our military might. Unless we killed everybody in North Vietnam we'd probably still be fighting there.
Think of it this way, if some country had ever managed to invade our country and beat the US military, do you think the fighting would ever stop? Can you imagine all the guys with their deer rifles and varmint guns that would be taking potshots at any invader? That's kinda what we're seeing in Iraq-----the same thing that would happen here if we were occupied by some foreign country. While I believe most of the Iraqi insurgents are criminals and terrorists who don't want a stable democracy in Iraq, some of them are probably convinced they're fighting a country that wants to occupy them forever. Even if that's not our real intent, they still believe it. I think the people of North Vietnam would have been the same way.
So thru some incredible bureaucratic snafus and political events that coincided I avoided the war. Actually, I was kinda disappointed at being discharged from the navy because by the time I went thru the whole draft process I figured I had a pretty good deal with the navy and was looking forward to traveling around the world and participating in the armed forces. I thought we were right to be in Vietnam and would win the war. I'm convinced now that because of all the politicians that were running the war, we didn't have a chance. There were too many restrictions. You hafta remember, in the 60s most people in the US thought we could win any war we got into.
On the other hand, my best friend had been killed in the Tet offensive and other good friends had been killed in Vietnam and Cambodia. Other friends had returned with serious wounds and another friend had returned home and committed suicide. I was hearing enough stories from returned friends by the late 60s to be starting to seriously question whether we were doing the right thing in Vietnam, but I never was a war protester.
It took a real long time to admit to myself that my friends had been killed in a war that we probably shouldn't have been in. Although it was a "noble cause" as Reagan called it, we probably were wrong to be there. McNamara's book was the final confirmation for me that it was a mistake. Up until then I still had some conviction that we were doing the right thing.
True, the people who were protesting the war made it harder for the people who were in it. On the other hand, it seems we never had a chance of winning it, even if the politicians had stayed out and we had been able to unleash all our military might. Unless we killed everybody in North Vietnam we'd probably still be fighting there.
Think of it this way, if some country had ever managed to invade our country and beat the US military, do you think the fighting would ever stop? Can you imagine all the guys with their deer rifles and varmint guns that would be taking potshots at any invader? That's kinda what we're seeing in Iraq-----the same thing that would happen here if we were occupied by some foreign country. While I believe most of the Iraqi insurgents are criminals and terrorists who don't want a stable democracy in Iraq, some of them are probably convinced they're fighting a country that wants to occupy them forever. Even if that's not our real intent, they still believe it. I think the people of North Vietnam would have been the same way.
Elkhunter
New member
Ithaca, that sounds a lot like the movie Red Dawn. Very good reply above.
Think of it this way, if some country had ever managed to invade our country and beat the US military, do you think the fighting would ever stop? Can you imagine all the guys with their deer rifles and varmint guns that would be taking potshots at any invader? That's kinda what we're seeing in Iraq-----the same thing that would happen here if we were occupied by some foreign country. While I believe most of the Iraqi insurgents are criminals and terrorists who don't want a stable democracy in Iraq, some of them are probably convinced they're fighting a country that wants to occupy them forever. Even if that's not our real intent, they still believe it. I think the people of North Vietnam would have been the same way.
Think of it this way, if some country had ever managed to invade our country and beat the US military, do you think the fighting would ever stop? Can you imagine all the guys with their deer rifles and varmint guns that would be taking potshots at any invader? That's kinda what we're seeing in Iraq-----the same thing that would happen here if we were occupied by some foreign country. While I believe most of the Iraqi insurgents are criminals and terrorists who don't want a stable democracy in Iraq, some of them are probably convinced they're fighting a country that wants to occupy them forever. Even if that's not our real intent, they still believe it. I think the people of North Vietnam would have been the same way.
Ithaca 37
New member
You know what? I'm getting real sick of this election already. I'd like to vote tomorrow and get it over with.
