Snowmobile violations reach record number in Yellowstone!!!

[Ithaca 37]

After all the scrutiny they've been under and all the negative publicity about snowmobiles in the Park I'm amazed that the snowmobilers aren't trying harder to clean up their image. What is it about being on a snowmobile or ATV that causes people to be so irresponsible?

"Officials at Yellowstone National Park reported a record number of violations by snowmobile riders this winter, a result of recent stepped-up enforcement of traffic rules in the park, they said.
But some conservationists say the 358 violations for such things as underage driving and speeding just reinforce their belief that snowmobiles should be banned from Yellowstone."

http://www.idahostatesman.com/News/environment/story.asp?ID=35311

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-16-2003 09:04: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> What is it about being on a snowmobile or ATV that causes people to be so irresponsible? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read the answer in the question.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Officials at Yellowstone National Park reported a record number of violations by snowmobile riders this winter, ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> a result of recent stepped-up enforcement of traffic rules in the park <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It works the same way with the state police and drunk drivers. When they had stepped up enforcement in an area, they seemed to catch more drunk drivers and speeders. Not because more drunk drivers or speeder were out, but as a result of recent stepped-up enforcement of traffic rules.

Increased enforement = increased detection of violations.

Good to here that they've started cracking down.

 

[Nut]

Glad that the enforcement has stepped up. But what will happen once more budget cuts take place?

 

[1_pointer]

Or are more breaking the rules now to get in that one last awesome ride before the park is totally shut down?

 

[Ithaca 37]

1 pointer, that's part of it. Well, everyone knew about increased enforcement, but the snowmobilers just kept on breaking the law. When you hear the cops are going to be in a part of your town with radar concentrating on catching speeders, do you pay special attention to the speed limit when you're in that neighborhood?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-16-2003 17:04: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Cheryl Matthews..., attributed the high number of snowmobile violations parkwide to increased enforcement of rules and regulations the past two winters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wildlife related violations were 0.08% of the tickets, and unless you were there..... 31.8% were for no drivers license. Anybody know what the national average is for people driving without a license on the highway is? (I don't, but listen to a police scanner sometime) 15% were for speeding (in a 35 MPH zone, doesn't take much). How many people follow the speed limit on the highway? (Not me, I'm always over a little) 17.3% for careless or reckless driving (politically correct for DUI?).

What is the total number of snowmobiles forthe season? We know how many tickets were written, but the question is what percentage of the whole got tickets.

ITHACA, you claim to have contacts in the IDFG, ask 2 questions, how many hunters were there last year, and how many tickets got written.

 

[Oak]

That's a typical response from the ORV crowd, and the attitude that will get you banned eventually. Instead of acknowledging the problem and doing something about it, you come out and say, "But look at how many aren't breaking the law!" All the increased enforcement has done is shown that there's more out there breaking the law than originally thought. It's not like they're making the numbers up. Keep it up, you guys are digging your own grave.

Oak

 

[Ten Bears]

OAK, when was the last time you exceeded the speed limit on the highway? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> That's a typical response from the ORV crowd.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Typical response of the anti-ORV crowd, spouting off without providing all the numbers.
I never said anything about how much we're not breaking the law. I said the information is not complete, and broke down the total into percentages. How about 35% were not registered in the first place. This is a common problem even in the truck business. Go to a UHaul lot and look at the number of trucks or trailers that are expired, I don't here a cry to outlaw them. Answer the question. "How many snowmobiles visited Yellowstone last season to earn 358 tickets?" How many hunters = how many tickets in CO last season?

BUZZ, before you start, how many hunters in WY got tickets for trespassing last year season (of course we will need to know how many hunters there were total as well)?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, You can call F&G Enforcement yourself. My point is that the snowmobilers know they are controversial, they know the are under intense scrutiny, they know anything they do that is illegal will be used against them, they know they are in the Park and it's easy for the enforcement people to check them, and they STILL try to get away with things like driving without a license!!

How much sympathy can you have for law breakers like that?

 

[Ten Bears]

ITHACA, now look at it this way, using your own words, I will bold text the changes that I make. I have a call into a freind @ F&G for those very answers I asked you to get (I knew you wouldn't do it, all talk and show).

ITHACA, My point is that the drunk drivers know they are controversial, they know the are under intense scrutiny, they know driving after drinking they do that is illegal will be used against them, they know they are on the road and it's easy for the enforcement people to check them, and they STILL try to get away with things like driving drunk, and in many cases,without a license!!

Does that make any sense to you?

 

[Ten Bears]

To quote yourself <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> How much sympathy can you have for law breakers like that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Argyle]

Re: Drunk Driving Analogy

This argument doesn't really hold water. By definition, drunk drivers suffer from impaired judgment. Thus, while I cannot condone their actions nor have any sympathy for them, I can understand how they suffer from such eggregious lack of judgment as allows them to commit their crimes.

Unless all the snowmobilers cited were also drunk, I can't say I understand their actions.

- rgl

 

[Ten Bears]

I say the analogy does hold water as, if they have no contigency plan for travel prior to drinking, they planned to drive. That makes the act the same, they made the decision prior to being impaired. Same with those that don't register their cars, or drive without a license, or speed by choice (to save a minute or two).

Look at it this way 15% were given tickets for speeding, 32% for no drivers license, and 35% for no registrations. How would that work for driving on the road. Those 15% ticketed in the park probably speed just like the rest of us on the highway. Care to place a wager on how many drove there without a license?

82% received tickets commonly found on the highway, yet less that 1% were ticketed for harassing wildlife, and 17.3% were ticketed for careless or reckless driving (that could mean many things = DUI /Impaired riding being one).

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, Nope, your analogy doesn't hold any more water than my fish net.

These snowmobilers come to a special place (the Park) to ride and they know the situation, but they still can't ride legally. Ban them all!

 

[Ten Bears]

And what your saying is the drunk driver never went to a "special place" (fill in the blank with bar, store, 7-11, convience store,...)with the intention of getting a drink? They know the consequences before they drink, but do it anyways. Time to ban all cars. No other solution.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, You're really stretchin'.

 

[Ten Bears]

And you can't reasonably explain why I'm "wrong".

 

[Ithaca 37]

Wrong again!

I'm just not wasting the time on you.

 

[Ten Bears]

Right.

Put down the mouse, and slowly back away from the key board.

 

[Troy Jones]

I think it proves there is too many laws and too much law enforcement. Thirty years ago there should have been a rule that they couldn't put another law on the books unless they took one off, one for one. I guess that's what happens when people lack responsibility for themselves.