SL Trib unloads again on SFW

[Ben Long]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56012807-78/wildlife-utah-sfw-deer.html.csp

Salt Lake City Tribune's Tim Wharton empties a rhetorical 30-round magazine at Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife. By golly, the people of Utah are beginning to notice what is going on with their wildlife and dollars.

 

[Big Fin]

A $600,000 return on your $6,500 campaign contribution is a hell of a good deal. Not sure what it will take for someone to eventually roll back the covers on the finances of this operation, but when they do, it is not going to be pretty.

I was in SLC for the last four days, doing seminars at the ISE Sports Expo. Almost everyone who stopped and talked to me brought up the topic of SFW and expressed their support for the efforts many from outside of Utah have taken to try shed some light on the workings of this organization and its sister, Big Game Forever.

It is really going to require the good folks of Utah to demand an accounting of where the millions of dollars have went. And, to put some pressures on the legislature to look at the work of those legislators who have received so many generous donations from the SFW/BGF crowd.

For SFW to present a check to UT DWR and make it sound like an SFW donation, is laughable. Really, they do that with a straight face, when most the rest of the country who sees this Utah tag welfar for what it is, is laughing out loud.

Hardly any of that is coming from SFW pockets, rather from the state assets that SFW sells in the form of state tags. For them to make it sound like they are being generous would be like me selling a section of State Trust land for $2 million dollars, keeping most of the money, then asking for a big shower of praise when I gave the State Land Board $500,000 of the $2,000,000 that I got from selling land I never owned.

Hell, let me keep 70% of the money from public assets and I will gladly make a big production about the other 30% I give back. I suspect most of you would like the same deal.

Don't even get me started on the raffle tags at the Expo. Since the state gets none of that money, I guess they don't make a big deal about giving any of that back to the state.

It is one hell of a racket. And to think that is the money source that goes to fund the SFW shenanigans in Montana, Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, and other western states. I hope hunters in other states rid themselves of this pox before it ever gets to the level of incest that is occurring in Utah.

I hope Mr. Wharton looks even further into this topic. In preparation for my debate with Don Peay last summer, a debate he walked away from when I requested an accounting of how they spend their money, I spoke to many Utah folks who have much knowledge about what is going on and has went on in Utah. I hope those people agree to speak to Mr. Wharton. If so, this house of cards could crumble real fast.

Any of you willing to let me sell your hunting rig and give you 30% of the proceeds? I promise I will take some pictures and make a big show of it, if you let me keep the other 70% and not have to tell you what I did with the money.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I just happened to be in another "war of words" with Bob Wharff of the WYSFW on the Wyoming MM Forum and posted this up for him to read before coming over here to do the same and see Ben beat me to it! I have a feeling that just maybe the DP ship is going to go down in the next several years and it wouldn't be too soon for most people in the know!

 

[grizzly_]

This is getting ridiculous. Wharton did a pretty good job explaining what is going on.

TOPGUN and I have been fighting a pretty brutal fight on some other sites.

Hopefully somebody with some influence will step up and help make some changes at the Legislature or DWR.

I feel like there are a lot of Utahans that are just waiting for somebody better to come along so we can throw our support behind them.

 

[utah400elk]

Once again, please ignore the man behind the curtain. I can see the SFW spin already...Utah gave BGF and SFW $600,000 and there are no wolves to speak of in Utah. If (insert your state name hear) had given SFW/BGF at least $600,000 (insert your state name hear) wouldn't have any wolves either! It is clear to me that Montana, Idaho and Wyoming should have simply given in to the SFW demands and there wouldn't be a wolf situation.

I find it incredibly funny that they gave them the money when they couldn't even account for the previous $300,000. Sounds a lot like the expo. They claim they did wonders for the wildlife with the expo money. It takes then multiple years to produce any factual numbers (debatable if they ever have) but they are awarded another 5 year contract before they are ever even asked for the results of the previous contract.

 

[klbzdad]

Thanks Randy, TOPGUN and Grizz! I was looking forward to that debate and sad it didn't happen but most of us realized it would never come to fruition because Don is a coward. Living in Utah, I can assure you that my big mouth won't stay quiet to those representatives who signed on to give DP a red dime.

Watch out, we'll have another round of "CALL TO ACTION" text messages and emails coming about the wolves being released on the Kaibab.......only, there are no plans to do such a thing and to release a wolf anywhere would get national attention let alone where there likely never were any.

 

[Tree]

Randy,

It was great to talk to you at the show. Thanks for all you have done and continue to do. There are quite a few passionate sportsmen and women involved with SFW and many that have left the table for the simple lack of transparency, myself included.

Keep up the good work.

Tye

 

[Mark Richards]

There's nothing funny about the level of corruption going on, and I for one am completely shocked the Don got another $300K of the public's money, after there was no accounting for the first 300K, and no lobbyist registered.

At some point - this point, actually - I can only be completely cynical that anything will ever really be investigated and any light shined on Peay's and SFWs and BGF's et al activities. Only way it can happen is if someone comes clean at great expense to himself, monetarily and legally.

Sigh...

 

[grizzly_]

I've spent the past week shining light on SFW and their dealings over on MM. It is such a complex issue with so many details (Arctic Red River, Conservation v. Convention Tags, BGF tax-payer grants, lack of financial accountability, desired destruction of the North American Model) that I feel many hunters just don't have the time or energy to comb through it all.

There has been some pretty intense exchanges between a former MDF President and some SFW supporters but I fear the average hunter isn't familiar enough with the situation to really rise up and demand a reckoning from the UDWR.

I don't have the connections or political experience to start a counter-group. I am disenfranchised with this fight. Hopefully somebody will get the ball rolling and we can make some real changes.

Grizzly

 

[klbzdad]

Grizz,

I am not a fan of the MM site but I appreciate your posts over there. I had to respond on one of the threads concerning wolf management (we are both contributing to that thread I believe) it was liberating to finally give a short example of the shady crap we see from SFW leadership and BGF. The group is good, the leadership is crap. Here's a part of my post:

Thanks to Simpson/Tester AND the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation members such as SCI and RMEF, they are now hunting and managing wolves at the state level in those states. Don and Ryan (BGF) opposed this bill and were on the wrong side of the lawsuit which is where they have led their groups over the last ten years (BGF being a fledgling group but still Dear Leader Don's baby). It wasn't BGF, Don, or Ryan that accomplished ANYTHING in the wolf fight. For your reading pleasure:


Big Game Forever says its in the fight:
http://www.huntersagainstpeta.com/big-game-forever-enters-the-fray-in-wolf-litigation

Which would be great BUT:
http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=4768

Oopsie, time to come clean:
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/1300697820a6c76kh830f

Then time to admit to its real intentions:
http://www.huntersagainstpeta.com/email-from-ryan-benson-at-big-game-forever

Oh, and then there was THIS:
http://biggameforever.org/blog/2011...s-has-broad-support-–-in-congress-and-beyond/

That goes with THIS:
http://www.montanademocrats.org/node/135

And THIS:
http://www.huntersagainstpeta.com/email-from-ryan-benson-at-big-game-forever

Finally:
http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/headlines/nr_4069.html

AND:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...ares-north-american-hunting-model-“socialism”

Its not SFW, its the lousy leadership. Time for a disassociation with Dear Leader Don and the current people in charge of the org and time for honest, open, and more common sense and relatable folks to take it to the next level. IMHO!

Shawn

 

[Big Fin]

KLBZ - Very good way to walk the faithfully blind SFW supporters down the path, step by step. Good links.

Bad news is that you could probably fill up five more posts with similar links without too much work. And, the Kool-aid crowd would still argue with you that St. Don is free of guilt and falsely accused.

I live by the theory that if given enough rope, fools will hang themselves. Right now, SFW is spooling the rope off in big lengths.

Keep up the pressure in Utah. Eventually, cockiness, arrrogance, self-servitude, and belief of being smarter than the rest of the world is going to have its final resting place.

You should post up similar step-by-step links to the Corey Rossi debacle in Alaska, the fact that SFW tried to scan AZ out of 300+ tags, SFW leading the legislative efforts to kick Utah anglers off the streams, and maybe how Utah tag money was used to buy land that is in the name of SFW.

All good stuff, none of which will change minds of the worshipers, but hopefully keep other well-intended souls from joining the crusade.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Don Peay & Ryan Benson can never again speak of EAJA and how corrupt that program is.

A few other links, just to round out the picture of what happened with wolves and who was in the lead

https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.9/how...how-enviros-helped/article_view?b_start:int=3

http://www.baucus.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=198

http://www.newwest.net/topic/articl..._delisting_bill_is_the_better_choice/C41/L41/

In the beginning, there was one group that saw the path and how to successfully navigate congress. That group rarely takes the credit for their vision and foresight.

It was MWF.

 

[klbzdad]

Thanks Finn. But to be perfectly honest, took me fifteen minutes to put that together. There is almost ZERO positive reporting or anything out there concerning SFW/BGF except that which the current and past lousy leadership spoon feeds its good members. And because local leadership has been rustled into a fervor to gain favor with the Dear Leader Don, they take their bloviating mess of propaganda and package it nice and play it for members at the banquets. There are easy solutions for that organization to be made great as it once was but as so many that have left the ranks of the SFW elite have said, the back door dealings run deep in the veins of everything we love. The only way this group can recover is by locals suggesting they will stop supporting those I refer kindly to as Dear Leader Don, Lt. Big Grin, and Captain Iron Jaw. If you're laughing its because you've met these guys.

I could easily create several threads on how they are on the wrong side of the argument and I know those loyal to SFW's bull won't buy anything given to them unless it comes out the mouths of those they are trying to stand up for. I chose to stand for groups with substance and honesty and have found that with RMEF and UWC. There are others I contribute to with membership fees and occasional donations when appropriate but these two groups do great things are aren't afraid to share credit for projects in Utah with other groups including SFW. Rarely is that reciprocated. Thanks for you all those who keep up the fight and let hope someday we see SFW turn a corner and BGF fade into oblivion.

By the way, Finn.......I didn't go to bed until 3am this morning because I was up watching OYOA beginning to end. Love it!

Shawn

 

[utah400elk]

Funny thing...I talked with a reporter from the Salt Lake Tribune. He is the same guy who wrote the recent article. He said after the last debacle wherein BGF/Peay was given the 2nd $300,000 grant they are doing some serious digging into SFW and the Utah system. I never really trust the press but this guy was asking the right questions. He is reading this site and MM and starting to try, according to him, to untangle all the half truths. I would be willing to bet there are more articles that will be comming out. He was very interested in the relationship between Peay and the Utah legislators who approved the 2nd grant.

 

[Jwill]

So how many tags do they take from UT?

 

[utah400elk]

Utah has more conservation tags than all other western states combined!

 

[Tree]

So how many tags do they take from UT?

Total conservation(Auction) tags total about 540 annually, with another additional 200 for the expo.

MDF and SFW a fair bulk of the conservation tags and all of the expo tags.

While it is advertised and promoted that these comprise a small percentage of the total tags in Utah, what is not typically acknowledged is what types of tags these are and how they are a fairly large percentage of the most coveted tags in the state.

Another thing to consider is why SFW gets grief over conservation and expo tags more than other groups that receive tags, such as RMEF, NWTF etc. is because these groups aren't using their power and influence to push their agendas. Most of the other groups that receive tags/money are for the most part, putting their heads down and going to work. Don't get me wrong, there are some agendas I can get behind, but the philosophical differences in how game and hunters are managed and what the result of these particular philosophies that they hold are as a whole, contrary to what I see the PTD and the NAMWC standing for. The model seems fairly clear. Keep outfitters, their clients and other hunting industry folks happy by creating world class animals by limiting opportunity, lobbying for things that benefit the industry and reaping the rewards on the back end. Are good things happening in the meantime? Yes. Do we overlook the bad? No. In my opinion the fairest and most credible approach is to acknowledge the good and bad with similar fervor.

IMO, a loose interpretation of "conservation" is being used, when really much of what I personally see happening is conserving game species for antler hungry folks, who are sometimes ignorant to what is really going on. They see the bright lights and glitter and some become mesmerized. There are also some fine folks involved with their organization, but again, philosophically contrary to the way many informed and educated folks idealize.

We come from a state where it is fairly unacceptable to question authority. So when the perceived authority says jump, many jump, regardless of validity and benefit, especially when it's being promoted with bright lights and glitter. I think this is why Utah has been much more easily influenced and controlled than other states. I also think Utah is a great example of what may happen if the same foothold is gained in other states.

We have also seen a huge increase in private lands being locked up, because there is now huge incentive to do so. Landowner permits and the CWMU program have increased quite a bit. There is too much benefit for landowners to ignore the potential money that is residing on their land. I believe in private property rights and think that it's one of the great things that our country offers, but we are not talking about land, we are talking about animals, a public trust. Gone are the days of helping to mend fence or any of the other form of gesture where one might historically receive permission to spend a few days hunting on somebody's land. In some instances, you might be more successful asking for a roll in the hay with the farmers daughter than asking to pursue a hoofed and winged gold on someone's game farm. Didn't we do away with market hunting at some point in the past?

Are they horrible people that deserved to be strung up or tarred and feathered. I don't think so. But when smoke appears, we need people to investigate if there is a fire and if so, who started it and why and also is it is ultimately good for wildlife and our hunting and fishing heritage.


And yes, there seems to be some validity to the recent allocation and lack of accountability concerning the 300k that has been alluded to.

http://utahlegislature.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?clip_id=3147&meta_id=85473

Go to 29:00

A little bird told me this may not be the end of the conversation and honestly, I'm personally not speculating what the findings might be, but we need to know, regardless of the results.

 

[warmer]

Total conservation(Auction) tags total about 540 annually, with another additional 200 for the expo.

MDF and SFW a fair bulk of the conservation tags and all of the expo tags.

While it is advertised and promoted that these comprise a small percentage of the total tags in Utah, what is not typically acknowledged is what types of tags these are and how they are a fairly large percentage of the most coveted tags in the state.

Another thing to consider is why SFW gets grief over conservation and expo tags more than other groups that receive tags, such as RMEF, NWTF etc. is because these groups aren't using their power and influence to push their agendas. Most of the other groups that receive tags/money are for the most part, putting their heads down and going to work. Don't get me wrong, there are some agendas I can get behind, but the philosophical differences in how game and hunters are managed and what the result of these particular philosophies that they hold are as a whole, contrary to what I see the PTD and the NAMWC standing for. The model seems fairly clear. Keep outfitters, their clients and other hunting industry folks happy by creating world class animals by limiting opportunity, lobbying for things that benefit the industry and reaping the rewards on the back end. Are good things happening in the meantime? Yes. Do we overlook the bad? No. In my opinion the fairest and most credible approach is to acknowledge the good and bad with similar fervor.

IMO, a loose interpretation of "conservation" is being used, when really much of what I personally see happening is conserving game species for antler hungry folks, who are sometimes ignorant to what is really going on. They see the bright lights and glitter and some become mesmerized. There are also some fine folks involved with their organization, but again, philosophically contrary to the way many informed and educated folks idealize.

We come from a state where it is fairly unacceptable to question authority. So when the perceived authority says jump, many jump, regardless of validity and benefit, especially when it's being promoted with bright lights and glitter. I think this is why Utah has been much more easily influenced and controlled than other states. I also think Utah is a great example of what may happen if the same foothold is gained in other states.

We have also seen a huge increase in private lands being locked up, because there is now huge incentive to do so. Landowner permits and the CWMU program have increased quite a bit. There is too much benefit for landowners to ignore the potential money that is residing on their land. I believe in private property rights and think that it's one of the great things that our country offers, but we are not talking about land, we are talking about animals, a public trust. Gone are the days of helping to mend fence or any of the other form of gesture where one might historically receive permission to spend a few days hunting on somebody's land. In some instances, you might be more successful asking for a roll in the hay with the farmers daughter than asking to pursue a hoofed and winged gold on someone's game farm. Didn't we do away with market hunting at some point in the past?

Are they horrible people that deserved to be strung up or tarred and feathered. I don't think so. But when smoke appears, we need people to investigate if there is a fire and if so, who started it and why and also is it is ultimately good for wildlife and our hunting and fishing heritage.


And yes, there seems to be some validity to the recent allocation and lack of accountability concerning the 300k that has been alluded to.

http://utahlegislature.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?clip_id=3147&meta_id=85473

Go to 29:00

A little bird told me this may not be the end of the conversation and honestly, I'm personally not speculating what the findings might be, but we need to know, regardless of the results.

So, even after presented with the fact BGF was not held accountable, Utah voted to give them another 300K?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

"So, even after presented with the fact BGF was not held accountable, Utah voted to give them another 300K?"


***Yep!!! I wish I could take $6,500 out of my 401K and put back in $600,000 without doing anything else. That's what basicly happened here when they "donated" that amount to their Legislator that got the money for them! I hope the media starts doing some real investigating on this whole shoddy mess that Peay has created out there. It worked in AZ when the media got involved with the tag grab they tried there last year and the lady lobbyist for SFW and her hubby ended up vacating AZ for a place in OK when they got outed!