Sitka vs. Core4 vs. APXg2 vs. Kuiu

[npaden]

Okay, I've got one season in with a full Core4 gear setup and a fully Russell APXg2 setup and a lightweight Sitka setup.

Trying to decide what to keep, what to sell and what to buy more of.

Out of all of it, I think I like the Core4 stuff the best. I had the element jacket and pants, and the pivot and assault base layers. The element pants were awesome with thigh zips for when it got warm and they were great busting brush. Just thick enough to keep from getting a ton of scratches and scrapes but not so thick that they were hot. The element jacket was good, but not as wind resistant as I would have hoped. It got a little chilly on an exposed ridge in the evenings even with the pivot and assault base layers on at about 50 degrees. If you are moving it isn't an issue, but sitting for a few hours I did get chilled in windy conditions.

I didn't get a chance to try out the APXg2 cyclone rain gear. I just don't hunt in the rain very often. I think for the price I'm going to keep it and I don't think I could justify the price to switch to Sitka or Kuiu for something that isn't going to be worn but once or twice a year maybe.

I was pretty impressed with the APXg2 Zephyr jacket and pants. The pants fit me a bit odd and I'm not sure what is up with that, but again for the price especially at 50% off that I paid for them they are probably worth keeping as a backup for my Core4 stuff. They are more wind resistant than the Element line too. The L4 Gale jacket is VERY wind resistant and sitting on that same windy ridge at 50 degrees I was downright toasty wearing it. The L2 Tundra layer was maybe the best surprise of all my gear, it looks pretty close to worthless, but it is wind resistant and toasty. I wore it under my Element jacket one evening and it was enough to keep me plenty warm. I have the L5 Whiteout jacket and bibbs, but not sure if or when I will wear them. Maybe if I'm planning on sitting in below freezing temperatures in the wind for hours at a time. The L1 lightweight base layer seem like it is pretty good. I never wore the bottoms, but the tops were a good change a few days into the hunt instead of wearing the Core4 baselayer every day.

I'm probably going to just hold onto all my APXg2 gear, I don't think I could sell it for enough to justify not keeping it. The only thing that I don't really like is the Zephyr pants and mainly that is a fit issue, not the quality of the gear or anything like that.

The difficult decision is my Sitka gear. I really like the Optifade Open Country camo pattern although I doubt any animals actually are going to notice the difference. My Core4 MM pattern held up well in the field with a cow elk staring me down from 65 yards with not a stich of cover between us but with a pinion pine tree to break up my outline. I still like the Optifade pattern better though.

I have a core zip T, ascent pants, and jetstream vest that I've worn on a couple outings. I also have a core layer pants and gloves and the traverse gloves. The zip T and jetstream vest did fine, but the ascent pants are almost too light for me. Very similar to wearing twill pants, every thorn, twig, etc. goes right through them and you can feel it. These also don't fit me exceptionally well as to get them to fit in the thighs I have to get the waist too big. I bought all of the stuff I have at pretty discounted prices, but I have struggled to find more at a price I was willing to pay. I thought I would need the traverse zip T and maybe the 90% set to really give them a chance but I could never find them on sale. I had them set aside to sell them on the classifieds, but now some of their stuff is going on sale and I find myself thinking about buying more of it mainly because I like the camo pattern. I'm curious if the 90% Sitka gear is going to be similar to the Core4 Element stuff in weight and being able to bust brush without it biting back as much as when wearing the Ascent pants.

I watch the Kuiu stuff as well and they have had some decent sales on them, but I am still not 100% sold on them. Seems that the attack pant and guide jacket would be something worth trying out, but I just haven't seen them cheap enough to pull the trigger on them.

If I sold the Sitka gear that I have I could come close to buying another set of the Core4 Element gear and that way I could swap them out for some fresh smelling clothes on the longer hunts, but I wish the Element gear was a little more wind resistant.

Probably more of a ramble than anything else, but I would love to hear other folks thoughts on the subject.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[DreaminofMT6X6s]

I love my Sitka, but 90% should mean 50%. The coldfront pants are ginormous and really loud so I only use them for cold days in the stand and the packs...well lets just say I'm buying a Mystery Ranch one of these days. All that aside, I'll still stick with it as it just fits so well (coldfront pants being the exception), stretches and holds up really well. I'm not sure anything is perfect.

 

[Big Fin]

Guess it will be a personal decision and what you use it for. Hope whatever decision you make it is one that works best for you.

After another season of using Sitka Gear, I can give some more insight to some of this year's new products. As much as people focus on camo patterns and I like the Optifade, I am more concerned about the perfomance of the gear when put under tough conditions.

Every year Sitka comes out with new items. This year, I used all the newest items. One item stood out among all of them - Timberline Pants.

The Timberline Pants are the most impressive piece of Sitka Gear I own. Built in knee pads, cargo pockets, zip pockets galore, built in waist belt, and mostly, a special fabric on the butt for sitting and glassing for hours without getting your butt wet. Very warm in both cold and wind. Have worn them every hunt in October and November. Very impressive. If I had to choose one single item of Sitka Gear for mountain hunting in cool to colder weather, it would be the Timberline Pants.

The other item is actually a series of items - Merimo Wool. The Merino Wool base layers are very warm, as wool is expected to be. And like all high quality Merino, is not scratchy and keeps odors at bay for days. Like those a lot. Use them as the base of everything and build from there.

The Merino wool gloves work great with my chopper mitts. I have the rag wool liners in them, then use the Merino wool gloves to keep my hands warm when I need dexterity and warmth. Not going to use them for my only glove, but they are great for keeping your hands warm when you are pulling them in and out of your mitts.

Still at a loss as to why anyone wears gloves as their primary cold weather hand wear. You cannot keep your hands warm in gloves during brutal cold. Plain and simple. I takes about one nano-second to drop the chopper mitts to use your fingers. At least when you need them, your fingers will be warm and fucntioning. With gloves, you might have very marginal dexterity, but your hands and fingers are so cold you cannot use them anyhow.

I can always spot the guys who wear gloves in cold weather. They hang a key chain on their zipper so they can operate it in a time of urgency.

Take it from an old Finlander with years of ice fishing and beaver trapping experience. Chopper mitts are the way to go. Now that I have the Sitka Merino Wool gloves to wear as a liner with my rag wool liners, I have the best of both worlds. Warm hands and light weight gloves when I do drop my chopper mitts for action.

 

[npaden]

So the Timberline pants will be coming out from Sitka in 2012? Those do sound really good. They the same material as the mountain pants they came out with this year, just extra pockets and stuff or are they heavier material than the mountain pants?

My big problem with the ascent pants was the thin material just didn't keep any sharp pointy scratchy things from getting right to my legs. To be fair the Core4 switchback pant is pretty much the same weight material and didn't offer much protection either. I'd rather be a little warm and not have scratches all up and down my legs than be cool and have my legs feeling and looking like they got in a cat fight.

 

[noharleyyet]

Good mention on the liners Fin...I have the mitt chopper liners and they do impede precise functional necessities...like keychain pulling.

 

[Moosie]

In Texas, jsut buy a Bug suit

We run the APX line of gear. It's affordable and works for what we need...........

 

[npaden]

I did end up in some snow on my elk hunt in New Mexico this year.

Of course we hiked in 6 miles and gained 3,000' of elevation to get there so even though it was 19 degrees I was sweating like crazy.

The mountain mimicry camo pattern really looked good in the sagebrush once we figured the elk were down low instead of up in the snow where we had been looking!

And I think the optifade open country is perfect for the sandhills.

But I was wearing blue jeans and walmart camo T-Shirt and sitting in a box blind when I shot my Texas whitetail this year.

 

[Big Fin]

So the Timberline pants will be coming out from Sitka in 2012? Those do sound really good. They the same material as the mountain pants they came out with this year, just extra pockets and stuff or are they heavier material than the mountain pants?

They came out in 2011. They are a heavier fabric than the Mountain Pant. Warmer and better in cold winds. Could be too hot in mid-temps where the Mountain Pant would be better.

Link provided.

http://www.sitkagear.com/products/open-country/pants/all-pants/timberline-pant

 

[Big Fin]

Good mention on the liners Fin...I have the mitt chopper liners and they do impede precise functional necessities...like keychain pulling.

Trust me, with the meds they give me for my liver condition, I am an expert at all things related to unexpected calls of nature. Good glove liners that allow fingers to operate zippers being at the top of that list.

 

[DreaminofMT6X6s]

So I'm confused then. Are the Timberline and Mountain pant to replace the 90% and Ascent. I've got both those and use them similarly to how Big Fin used the Timberline and Mountain Pant. The 90% don't block from wind nor do they have the knee pads and improved butt, but I love their lining. What's the inside of the Timberline like?

 

[Big Fin]

So I'm confused then. Are the Timberline and Mountain pant to replace the 90% and Ascent. I've got both those and use them similarly to how Big Fin used the Timberline and Mountain Pant. The 90% don't block from wind nor do they have the knee pads and improved butt, but I love their lining. What's the inside of the Timberline like?

No, they don't replace the Ascent or 90%. The Ascent is for sure a warm weather, active hunting pant. Very breathable and amazingly durable for something that light weight.

The Mountain Pant is like the Ascent, in that it is very breathable, though slightly heavier, with more pockets, built in belt, and very durable. Made for active mountain hunting.

The 90% is a soft shell pant that, well, is good for about 90% of active western hunting applications. Quite, durable, pretty warm. Not truly wind or waterproof, but has a DWR coating to keep you dry in light rain and snow. I use these pants a ton in moderate weather and active hunting. Well designed with plenty of pockets.

Timberline Pant is as explained below. Great for late season elk and sheep hunting. Almost bombproof. Extremely warm, durable, wind and water resistant, lots of pockets, lined inside, and the kneepads and butt seat I explained earlier.

If there is one thing I see with Sitka Gear in retail shops, it is sales people who don't understand the product application. The sales person sells you 90% pants for wet hunting. Or, Ascent pants for cold weather. You will probably get better info on the Sîtka website than many of the retail outlets. Sitka may not like me to say that, but that is the biggest reason I see for people not getting the most out of their investment in Sitka Gear.

Most these sales folks do not hunt as hard as you do. They don't understand the differences in the garments and the way this will perform for the application the customer is inquiring about.

I would put the Timberline Pants into any late season mountain hunting application. I like them that much.

 

[Lawnboy]

If there is one thing I see with Sitka Gear in retail shoos, it is sales people who don't understand the product application. The sales person sells you 90% pants for wet hunting. Or, Ascent pants for cold weather. You will probably get better info on the Sîtka website than many of the retail outlets. Sitka may not like me to say that, but that is the biggest reason I see for people not getting the most out of their investment in Sitka Gear.
.

Plus 1 on that Randy. I think that could be said for most sporting goods employees. It's kind of interesting to play dumb sometimes about a product and listen to the advice you are given.

 

[mixedbag]

Love the sitka gear.When I'm hunting out west I always wear it unless its wet.Which it was alot last year elk hunting the crazies.I pack in Cabelas microtex stuff as a backup because its light and packs small.I have the Russell L-4 pant and jacket that works good in treestands here.I wear it out west too but it takes too much room in the pack,and would only be a back up to my sitka stuff
I just bought a full 90% set of pant/jacket for the kid who helped me on my muley hunt in Montana for a Christmas present.He just called yesterday and man is he happy.He took off 3 days of his life to help me find some good deer to hunt so its the least I could do as a thank-you.I met him and his father while elk hunting this past Sept.Talk about some good people.thinking about getting the father the gps mapping for Montana

 

[WapitiBob]

I only take 5 pieces of camo on my hunts now. Ascent pants, core and traverse shirts, a 90% jacket, and a Sportsman's roll up rain coat. It has worked flawlessly from Utah and NM archery Elk hunts to mid October Antelope in Wyoming.

 

[DreaminofMT6X6s]

Thanks Fin! I'm liking the sound of that Timberline pant for sure. I use the 90% in the stand even (40 degrees and up), but on wet days when it's a little chillier the Timberline might even be a better option and certainly better for colder days in the mountains.

As far as people in the retail business, I couldn't agree more. For the guy who is serious about their sport he knows the difference in product anyway cause he's done all the research and discussed on forums like this, but for those who want new product or have less experience sometimes they end up suffering.

 

[Sytes]

This is an early thread though have since changed my perspective on hunt clothing and understandably understand the endorsed OYOA clothing line, or so it appears, though - well, here it is. :hump:

I may be a dissenting voice though for those pinched by the almighty $. of a Sitka setup that may cost $1300+...

I say C4E 100% - all the way! My complete setup of C4E includes the following:
jacket, rain jacket, vest, 3/4 zip shirt, pant (w/ kneepads)... $400!!! (+,-)

I was a guy who often snipped that my father / grandfather wore work boots, blue jeans, a flannel shirt and red suspenders in his champion pictures of some really nice deer and elk... Earlier, I wore what was budget (Walmart / clearance) priced and since then have pulled an elk every 3 years or so... though there is a TON of comfort wearing some good quality clothing that is QUIET in the brush and packable / lightweight! - we shall see if this bumps to every other year. My wife would enjoy our freezer with that ratio!

Thus, Core4Element all the way!

 

[huntbux]

I am in the process of switching all my camo over to Sitka, which in my opinion is the top of the line. The timberline pants are great as randy has said above. The jetstream jacket, I really like with the windstopper in it. I have a couple of layer pieces of sitka as well.
For underlayers, I am a big fan of Under Armour mainly due to the ability to only wear one layer and the under layers having scent control in them as well. I have worn these camo setups now on antelope, mule deer, and elk hunts this year. For every hunt I didnt have to change much and the weather was ranging from 70 to -5. Hunting in Idaho and Nevada.
When it comes to camo's I think its all a personal choice and you can just take peoples recommendations in and go with your gut.
Good Luck

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

For underlayers, I am a big fan of Under Armour mainly due to the ability to only wear one layer and the under layers having scent control in them as well. I have worn these camo setups now on antelope, mule deer, and elk hunts this year. For every hunt I didnt have to change much and the weather was ranging from 70 to -5. Hunting in Idaho and

Doesn't your UA really start to stink on you after a few days? I had a bunch of UA from work, and still use it for working out, but that stuff gets nasty. I have been switching to Firstlite for my underlayers and that stuff is great. I can wear it for a week and it doesn't smell bad. Plus, I can get it cheap on promotive, so even better.

 

[npaden]

This is an old thread, but I've still never really settled the original question that I had even though now I have a lot more Sitka gear and a full set of Kuiu gear and less Russell APXg2 gear now than I had at the time of the post.

I did sell the Sitka ascent pants though, they are just too lightweight to be much good for the type of hunting I do. I got a great deal on a pair of mountain pants on camofire and they are much tougher fabric and better suited for my style of hunting. I sold the Jetstream Vest and ended up with a several year old 90% jacket that seems to work well for most of the open country hunting that I do where I wear that pattern.

If I were to pick a favorite now though, I would pick Kuiu. Their guide gear is really comfortable and I like the Vias camo pattern for the timber. I have a few of their merino shirts for base layers. I don't wear the Core4 that much anymore, but it is good gear, I just like the Sitka and Kuiu a little better.

Where I've been very lucky is picking up a lot of lightly used gear on archerytalk at deep discounts or finding it on camofire occasionally. I don't think I could have ever pulled the trigger on any of it at full retail prices.

 

[Zach]

There are a few places with 20% off Sitka gear right now. Midway USA and Pro Guide direct to name two.