Should Magnums be used to Compensate Poor Marksmanship?

[Ten Bears]

This topic spilled over from another.

I firmly believe that it is the skill of the shooter and not so much the rifle that makes the shot count. Every firearm has its good and bad points, but when in the hands of a competent marksman they are all capable of doing the job.

My statement is that a magnum should never be used to compensate for poor marksmenship.

In order to keep with the topic. I bring that debate here.

TB- A lot of posts should never be used as a compensation for stupidity

Why not? you sure do it hump

SRR, that post was originally made by MATTy. I believe he meant, and it applies to you, that; A lot of posts should never be considered as compensation for lacking intellect. He was trying to be whitty because he wants a "magnum" rifle because his dirty 06 can't kill critters fast enough. In many cases it's not the rifle, but the person behind the rifle that makes the shot count. Let's take this to a new topic.

 

[Washington Hunter]

A magnum is of no advantage unless you are shooting at over 400 yards, and how many people ever shoot that far? But then again, there is no disadvantage to a magnum either, as long as the extra recoil and noise doesn't affect a person's ability to shoot accurately.

 

[ELKCHSR]

I like my 300 WTBY Mag.
It hits 2 1/2 inch groups at three hundred yards.
I still make it a point to try and shoot all of my game inside of 75 yard broad side shots.
Thats just me, others will do front and rear shots, shoot them in the head and wherever else they can be shot and dropped.
I do like the ability to take that long shot if the situation arises.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Having an adequate gun, whether it be a magnum or not, can make a difference for a non-resident hunter on a once-a-year trip. For example, a quartering away shot on a bull elk, through the flank and perhaps part of the paunch at 200 yards. A .338 with a good bullet would make me more comfortable with taking the shot than a .270 with a standard bullet. (Maybe you would feel comfortable taking the shot with a .243 and a new super bullet, but I would pass if that is what I was carrying.) To me, this is an example of when a magnum might be better. My vacation time is too limited. Of course - you have to be able to shoot it well and place the bullet properly not matter what you are shooting.

A resident hunter who can hunt the entire length of a long season with frequent or several opportunities to take a bull may not need to take that kind of a shot and can afford to pass it up.

 

[Delw]

If someone has to use a magnum to compensate for there not so good shooting, I dont think they should be shooting at all. Nothing worse than tracking a wounded animal or detroying have the animal .


Delw

 

[OSOK]

I thought that most poor hunters compensated for their lack there of with the use of 4 wheelers! :hump:

 

[snake river rufus]

TB, I know what he was saying and I still think it applies more to him than anyone. As far as using a Magnum,,, I think most of us know what they will do and are smart enough to not try to shoot more gun than they can handle. That is a decision the shooter has to make for him/her self.

 

[cjcj]

Its all about shot placement [my opinion] I have killed cow elk with 1 shot 30-30.. dropped them right in there tracks 100 yrds.... i have also shot them with 30-06 [my favorite] also 7mm mag... i have had deer run after having been shot[ not far] and i have had elk run up to 75 yrds with a perfect shot.. but for long distance i agree give me the mag.. but i have seen idiots shoot and miss no matter what they use. IMO no substitute for a well placed shot.

 

[noharleyyet]

I've heard gun writers imply that magnums perform better than standard chamberings on 'marginal hits.' They always add the 'proper shot placement' disclaimer thereby taking a firm stance straddling the fence. I only own magnums at the moment and shoot them often but I realize their capabilities exceed my shooting skills. Cali Hunter makes a good point in regard to "shoot or not shoot". The pressure of a rare harvest opportunity hundreds of miles form home with limited time to do so can be a strong persuader. In a nutshell, personally,...practice, know your rifle and keep it in good condition...proper shot placement.

 

[dgibson]

I also agree with Cali. On a classic broadside shot the magnum isn't necessary unless you're shooting a loooong way. But if I ever get to go elk hunting I'll take a magnum with me, because I don't want to pass up that lifetime bull that never shows me a broadside shot. I don't trust a .270 or .30-06 to break an elk's shoulder or reliably penetrate his grass-filled gut. But that isn't using a magnum to compensate for poor marksmanship; that's using one to expand the shot possibilities.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Actually, it's a pretty dumb question.

 

[BuzzH]

Most of the time, those that argue magnums arent as good...have never shot one to know one way or the other.

I agree with Ithaca, its a dumb question.

Oh, and OSOK has it right...

 

[Ithaca 37]

I have a pet peeve about magnums, though. Anything from a 7mm Magnum on up can be uncomfortable for many people to shoot, especially when you get up to the 300s. I don't think most people shoot magnums as accurately as the regular calibers. I know I'm going to hear a lot of huffing and puffing BS over that statement, but I'd be willing to bet that if we took any random sample of one hundred 300 Mag shooters and put them up against any random sample of one hundred .243 shooters in an offhand shooting match the .243 crew would win. I know that when I shot a .257 for years I was more accurate than when I shot a magnum after awhile, and I'm not a small bodied guy. Magnums cause flinching and all this craze about having 300 magnums and up doesn't help the average hunters accuracy. Most of them would shoot better with lighter calibers.

If you don't believe it, go take ten shots with a .243 and then ten shots with your magnum and see which you shoot better.

That's why I use my .280 for everything and I pass up any shot I'm not 100% sure of.

 

[cjcj]

Ten shots? i only need one.

 

[noharleyyet]

IT, doesn't your 280 generate about the same recoil energy as the 7 mag?

 

[Erik in AK]

JM2C but...

I tend to view magnums in the same light as tools, since, basically thats all they are. Magnum advocates, no make that magnum zealots, on the other hand...
You know the guy who won't shut up how his uncle (these guys always have a dozen uncles who are "experts" at whatever you're talking about) drops elk in their tracks at 600 yard every year.

A bigger caliber requires a bigger commitment on the part of the shooter as that extra recoil takes getting used to.

I happen to have a .338 which I bought specifically to hunt coastal brownies (one of these days). I can handle the recoil but not for nearly as many shots as any of my other rifles. I'm pretty sure I'm average in this regard

It's not big calibers that are the problem per se, it's the buttheads the name "Magnum" tends to attract. Its the more is better mentaility. Sure, magnums out perform comparable standard calibers and if a guy shoots one well, hey have at it.

 

[Ithaca 37]

noharley, check a reloading manual. Max load for a 7mm magnum140 grain bullet using 4831----71.4 grains. Max load for a .280 using 140 grain bullets and 4831 --59.5 grains. Data will vary in different manuals, but that's close enough. Same bullet, 11 grains more powder. Which has more recoil? I usually use 140 grain bullets and I'm usually close to maximum loads recommended. 160 grains for elk, but I don't hunt elk any more. Got tired of packing them out.

 

[noharleyyet]

Ithaca, checked Chuck Hawk's recoil table:

280 140 gr. @ 3000fps...17.2 lbs recoil energy
7 mag 140 gr, @ 3150....19.1 lbs " "

 

[Michaelr]

Ithaca mark this on your calender,
You are right on.
Most guys will do better with smaller rifles.
I also shoot a 280, and it has performed excellent.

 

[cjcj]

Rugar 1 7mm mag. 1 shot 1 kill works every time.. hump but i like the 30-06 don`t know why alot of guys here call it dirty -06.