Short action vs. long action

[kiwi hunter]

the last post is interesting
my understanding is that a 200gr barnes is a long projectile,n long projectiles need faster twist.have i got this thing all wrong?

 

[std7mag]

Ok, i'm confused....
I thought we were talking about the reasoning for a short action vs a long action??..

Thinking Sako vs other manufacturer should be another thread..

As far as my observations, the only factory rifle that comes anywhere near a custom for REPEATABLE accuracy is the Savage BR rifles.

 

[std7mag]

the last post is interesting
my understanding is that a 200gr barnes is a long projectile,n long projectiles need faster twist.have i got this thing all wrong?

Nope, your right.

 

[antelopedundee]

the last post is interesting
my understanding is that a 200gr barnes is a long projectile,n long projectiles need faster twist.have i got this thing all wrong?

The long projectile is why you need a long action with a longer magazine to accommodate the loaded round.

 

[ImBillT]

Ok, i'm confused....
I thought we were talking about the reasoning for a short action vs a long action??..

Thinking Sako vs other manufacturer should be another thread..

As far as my observations, the only factory rifle that comes anywhere near a custom for REPEATABLE accuracy is the Savage BR rifles.

Sako Benchrest is better. 40XBR is better. Both cost tons more.

 

[std7mag]

The long projectile is why you need a long action with a longer magazine to accommodate the loaded round.

But don't forget, you may need to throat ream to be able to seat the bullet longer to begin with.
A heavy for caliber bullet, with a short throat does you no good either.

 

[std7mag]

Sako Benchrest is better. 40XBR is better. Both cost tons more.

Both of which i've never laid eyes on, much less seen one shoot.

 

[ImBillT]

Both of which i've never laid eyes on, much less seen one shoot.

And yet they exist.

 

[noharleyyet]

Ok, i'm confused....
I thought we were talking about the reasoning for a short action vs a long action??..

Thinking Sako vs other manufacturer should be another thread..

As far as my observations, the only factory rifle that comes anywhere near a custom for REPEATABLE accuracy is the Savage BR rifles.

No it's about short vs long...expounding on the attributes of different proprietary shorts is understandable.

*edit to add...I prefer long actions.

 

[kiwi hunter]

like lost in the woods but you do learn more

 

[Bam Bam]

I often read that people are looking for a cartridge in a short-action. For example, a .308 (short action) vs. a .30-06 (long action) is 2.8" OAL vs. 3.34" OAL. I wouldn't think it would make the rifle lighter enough to make any difference.

Why choose one vs. the other?

Growing up back East, we shot many, many deer on public land deer drives. A short action made all the difference in the world if you needed a fast follow-up shot. For that reason alone, I still prefer short action rifles, even though I haven't hunted that way in many years.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Ok, i'm confused....
I thought we were talking about the reasoning for a short action vs a long action??..

Thinking Sako vs other manufacturer should be another thread..

As far as my observations, the only factory rifle that comes anywhere near a custom for REPEATABLE accuracy is the Savage BR rifles.

Sorry you are right. I got off on the Sako journery thinking aout how they made rifles in so many different actions sizes.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

the last post is interesting
my understanding is that a 200gr barnes is a long projectile,n long projectiles need faster twist.have i got this thing all wrong?

The standard twist rate for the 308 winchester is 1/12. Sako made thier 308 twist rate 1/11 so it can handle heavir bullets.

 

[std7mag]

And yet they exist.

I've never seen Bigfoot, either....

Just say'n...

 

[std7mag]

Growing up back East, we shot many, many deer on public land deer drives. A short action made all the difference in the world if you needed a fast follow-up shot. For that reason alone, I still prefer short action rifles, even though I haven't hunted that way in many years.

I'm in PA. I haven't done a drive.
Hard to do when it's only you. Lol
Biggest advantage in the thick stuff around here is a short barrel, so as not to get snagged.
My neighbor has a 20" barrel on his 30-06.
And i've run accross one guy with a 20" barrel on his 7mm Rem Mag.
I can understand wanting a short barrel.
But a short barrel on something like a Rem Mag i just can't wrap my head around.

I have thought about a short barreled rifle. But the 2 that i've thought about is, 1) a lever action in 45 Colt, or 2) a Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster.

 

[Panda Bear]

.

I have thought about a short barreled rifle. But the 2 that i've thought about is, 1) a lever action in 45 Colt, or 2) a Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster.

sorry, off topic but wanted to suggest you also look at the Win. 71-348. when/if you decide to look at lever's. Hard to scope, but a nice rifle for open sights short range hunting. If the 348 has any interest to you, Browning made them for awhile also and those can be scoped easily

 

[Mustangs Rule]

I'm in PA. I haven't done a drive.
Hard to do when it's only you. Lol
Biggest advantage in the thick stuff around here is a short barrel, so as not to get snagged.
My neighbor has a 20" barrel on his 30-06.
And i've run accross one guy with a 20" barrel on his 7mm Rem Mag.
I can understand wanting a short barrel.
But a short barrel on something like a Rem Mag i just can't wrap my head around.

I have thought about a short barreled rifle. But the 2 that i've thought about is, 1) a lever action in 45 Colt, or 2) a Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster.

A friend of mine who grew up in the heavy eaatern forest, had a Remington 788 in.243 in a medium length action. The 20 inch barrel was thick enough to have it rebored to .358 Winchester. He chose the 1/16 twist.

It will MOA at a 100 yards with Barnes 225 grain TSX, is accuarte with cheap downloaded 38 pistol bullets, and with custom shotloads made from Speer 38 caliber plastic shot capsules, the pattern is just dense enough to shoot a grouse up close,,,,on the ground or in a tree.

Now and then when in either a bored or crazy mood, I think about getting a .358 barrel made up for Sako Finnlght. I have the peep sight for it,,,fits right into the tapered dovetail in the reciever. With a big bright red sight my old eyes could see, I think I woud have the most diverse live off the land rifle imaginable.

Go back and forth in a minute to a scope. Such incredible versatility.

I did a small game hunt-about in Alaska years back with my 35 Whelen. $20 paid for a non-res, small game hunting license, and there were plenty of grouse and arctic hare to hunt.

That was a real great adventure.

 

[ImBillT]

I've never seen Bigfoot, either....

Just say'n...

Really?

You’re obviously not qualified to make the statement that a Savage BR is the only non-custom rifle that can come close to the accuracy of a custom rifle.

 

[shrapnel]

There are many reasons for a preference of action length. Some mechanical, some aesthetics. I have dozens of different rifles for different uses. I have gotten to prefer one size over another more for aesthetics than function, although function of a fitted action does add to the usefulness of the rifle.

I have never been a fan of Mauser actions as they seem bulky and cluttered on the rear of the bolt. I do have a Mauser in 257 Roberts and I got it due to the craftsmanship of the overall rifle, which is superb and the safety was put on the side of the action instead of the rear of the bolt. It is too much action for the 257 Roberts, but the rifle is a beauty and with a little help from color/case on the shroud, the rifle does look nice...






I also have dozens of Sakos and Sako is more innovative with their action dimensions, as they have made 3 lengths and tailored the bolt size to fit the cartridge and not have a one-size-fits-all action that they use blocks and gadgetry to make different cartridges fit. The reason I like the Sakos is they are extremely well made and no magazine from any manufacturer will feed cartridges more reliably than the Sako...








Then there is Cooper. It is impossible to show all the various actions and lengths they have. There are so many and some are discontinued, but Cooper really made the action around the cartridge being fired in that gun. The workmanship is exceptional and the rifles shoot like no other production rifle...



If you haven't heard or seen Sako or Cooper rifles, you probably don't worry too much about the action, it's length and the size of the bolt face. But if all that stuff matters, there is a good selection of actions, lengths and sizes for any cartridge.

 

[ImBillT]

There are many reasons for a preference of action length. Some mechanical, some aesthetics. I have dozens of different rifles for different uses. I have gotten to prefer one size over another more for aesthetics than function, although function of a fitted action does add to the usefulness of the rifle.

I have never been a fan of Mauser actions as they seem bulky and cluttered on the rear of the bolt. I do have a Mauser in 257 Roberts and I got it due to the craftsmanship of the overall rifle, which is superb and the safety was put on the side of the action instead of the rear of the bolt. It is too much action for the 257 Roberts, but the rifle is a beauty and with a little help from color/case on the shroud, the rifle does look nice...

View attachment 189796

View attachment 189788


I also have dozens of Sakos and Sako is more innovative with their action dimensions, as they have made 3 lengths and tailored the bolt size to fit the cartridge and not have a one-size-fits-all action that they use blocks and gadgetry to make different cartridges fit. The reason I like the Sakos is they are extremely well made and no magazine from any manufacturer will feed cartridges more reliably than the Sako...

View attachment 189790

View attachment 189798

View attachment 189799View attachment 189800View attachment 189801


Then there is Cooper. It is impossible to show all the various actions and lengths they have. There are so many and some are discontinued, but Cooper really made the action around the cartridge being fired in that gun. The workmanship is exceptional and the rifles shoot like no other production rifle...

View attachment 189802View attachment 189803View attachment 189804View attachment 189805

If you haven't heard or seen Sako or Cooper rifles, you probably don't worry too much about the action, it's length and the size of the bolt face. But if all that stuff matters, there is a good selection of actions, lengths and sizes for any cartridge.

That Mauser had the safety removed, and a custom trigger that included a safety installed. There is very little effort required for a such a conversion if someone doesn’t like the safety in the original position.