Second Node?

[Redmt]

To shorten up a long story, my.300 Win Mag M77 Hawkeye's magazine well limits my COAL severely. In fact it holds the bullet, 165gr. TTSX, .160 off the rifling. I was talking to my Son in law about it and he mentioned that he has a rifle he found a second Node. It shoot's very well at about .030 off and again just as accurate around 80+ off. Any thoughts on this?

 

[elkantlers]

Work with what you have. Start as long as you can and work backwards. See if the groups get any better or if you find a sweet spot.

Another thought, Are you killing critters or targets? You don't need .30" groups to kill elk.

 

[VikingsGuy]

To the extent finding a good load is matching barrel harmonics, anything that changes the time it takes for a bullet to exit the barrel will have good and bad nodes that "oscillate" - so in theory there are second and third nodes for several variables - it's just that the practical range for a number of these variables is often too narrow for us to test that far to see. So, I am not surprised seating depth too has node hotspots.

 

[Hammsolo]

This sounds like what @JLS and I will be tackling with my 300 and some Absolute Hammers. I have a Kampfeld Custom built using a T3 action. I did this before deciding to learn reloading. It was my “divorce rifle” and I wanted to commemorate getting through that crap so I customized it. Long story short they have very short magazines. I’ve ordered a Mountain Tactical Magazine to get a little more length. It shoots factory ammo very well, but I want to reload now.

I’m all about strategy. What’s a good way to “chase these nodes?” Full length and then how far back?

 

[Addicting]

This sounds like what @JLS and I will be tackling with my 300 and some Absolute Hammers. I have a Kampfeld Custom built using a T3 action. I did this before deciding to learn reloading. It was my “divorce rifle” and I wanted to commemorate getting through that crap so I customized it. Long story short they have very short magazines. I’ve ordered a Mountain Tactical Magazine to get a little more length. It shoots factory ammo very well, but I want to reload now.

I’m all about strategy. What’s a good way to “chase these nodes?” Full length and then how far back?

Buy a chronograph and find the velocity flat spots. I would go .2g increments down from the max. Load about 6 and you will find a flat spots covering two charges. Then use seating depth to fine tune.

Hammers seating depth didn’t seem to matter as much as others.

 

[Redmt]

It's a critter killer (hopefully). All it will ever be fed will be handloads so while developing one it might as well be the best one within reason. I started with a recommended book load and tweak it from there.
Lots of great information here. Thanks!!!

 

[Elktrack]

Erik Cortina has a good video on seating depth nodes and chasing the lands. He discusses this and says that if you’re limited by mag length start there and start working back. There’s multiple nodes, just find one that works and run with it regardless of distance to lands.
Seating depth can drive a guy crazy.

I’ve got a couple rifles that I can’t get anywhere close to the lands because of my magazine length. Once I find a depth that shoots well I don’t mess with it. I’m also not a world champion F class shooter and don’t freak out if my groups are over 1/2”.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Buy a chronograph and find the velocity flat spots. I would go .2g increments down from the max. Load about 6 and you will find a flat spots covering two charges. Then use seating depth to fine tune.

Hammers seating depth didn’t seem to matter as much as others.

I use the velocity method too, and I believe it is the fastest and cheapest way to go, but it too is just another way of chasing nodes.

 

[Hammsolo]

I’m learning. “Flat spots?” Is that where the velocity stays the same in spite of powder changes?

 

[Elktrack]

I’m learning. “Flat spots?” Is that where the velocity stays the same in spite of powder changes?

It’s where there’s the least spread in velocities. Think about it in terms as being uniform and efficient. Small deviations result in better consistency

 

[Redmt]

Erik Cortina has a good video on seating depth nodes and chasing the lands. He discusses this and says that if you’re limited by mag length start there and start working back. There’s multiple nodes, just find one that works and run with it regardless of distance to lands.
Seating depth can drive a guy crazy.

I’ve got a couple rifles that I can’t get anywhere close to the lands because of my magazine length. Once I find a depth that shoots well I don’t mess with it. I’m also not a world champion F class shooter and don’t freak out if my groups are over 1/2”.

You wouldn't have a direct link to his video? I went to YouTube and there's truckloads of videos from every internet expert in the world.

 

[Elktrack]

I’m the least technically proficient dude in the world but I think I figured out how to do this. Try this.

 

[pyrotechnic]

I would love to see data of velocity flat spots that is repeatable. What you're seeing is single data points within your velocity error bars line up by chance.

It's a testament to the quality of components and barrels that we then find good shooting loads in said "flat spots"

OP I believe berger has a pretty good article on seating depth.

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

 

[JLS]

Long story short they have very short magazines. I’ve ordered a Mountain Tactical Magazine to get a little more length.

Ridiculously short. I couldn’t believe how deep we had to seat those.

 

[Redmt]

I’m the least technically proficient dude in the world but I think I figured out how to do this. Try this.

That wasn't relative to magazine length limits. Interesting but not what I was looking for.

 

[Elktrack]

That wasn't relative to magazine length limits. Interesting but not what I was looking for.

Hmm. Sorry, Thought he spoke to mag length in that one but maybe not. I’ll be interested to see how things work out for you. I’m dealing with same issue and some 221 gr Hammers.

 

[Redmt]

Hmm. Sorry, Thought he spoke to mag length in that one but maybe not. I’ll be interested to see how things work out for you. I’m dealing with same issue and some 221 gr Hammers.

I'm going to set them at magazine length minus maybe .020-.025. the load book max COAL is 3.340 the magazine is 3.420 It shouldn't take long to find what works best.

 

[Elktrack]

I'm going to set them at magazine length minus maybe .020-.025. the load book max COAL is 3.340 the magazine is 3.420 It shouldn't take long to find what works best.

That’s about all you can do. I’m in same boat as you. Funny thing is I never thought twice about until I went down this seating depth worm hole and started trying to “improve“ my loads.
I used to load per manual OAL length and everything was fine.
Hand loading is a special kind of addiction. Or an illness. Haha

 

[Redmt]

That’s about all you can do. I’m in same boat as you. Funny thing is I never thought twice about until I went down this seating depth worm hole and started trying to “improve“ my loads.
I used to load per manual OAL length and everything was fine.
Hand loading is a special kind of addiction. Or an illness. Haha

I like to fiddle with everything. If it works, I'm sure I can make it work better! Or sometimes it's FUBAR when I'm done. I need adult supervision.

 

[Elktrack]

I like to fiddle with everything. If it works, I'm sure I can make it work better! Or sometimes it's FUBAR when I'm done. I need adult supervision.

Me too buddy, me too