SB 111 Crossbows out of Committee

[MThuntr]

I just saw a post on Facebook from Doug Krings...SB 111 allowing Crossbows in Archery season passed committee on party lines. Anyone got the skuttlebutt because admittedly I haven't had a chance to read anything today?

 

[golfer]

Right now the way the bill is put together its only going to be allowed to be used by those with medical conditions. I believe that a doctors note and a crossbow safety course will be required. So not everyone and their dog can go out and buy a cross bow and start using it.

 

[timmy]

Uffda things are getting ugly.

 

[golfer]

Agreed, hopefully this can get killed on the floor. It will only get worse from here.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I am way less bent over medical exemptions allowing crossbows than I am adding more days of seasons for muzzleloaders.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I am way less bent over medical exemptions allowing crossbows than I am adding more days of seasons for muzzleloaders.

... shoulder seasons

... herd objectives

 

[Gerald Martin]

... shoulder seasons

... herd objectives

My rage meter is pegged at eleven.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

My rage meter is pegged at eleven.

Medical exemptions for crossbows does seem minor.

My goal is that my kids and your kids will be able argue about the esoteric minutia of their elk hunting in Montana, seems increasingly that goal is under siege.

Personally if I never kill another elk so be it...

 

[bigsky2]

I am way less bent over medical exemptions allowing crossbows than I am adding more days of seasons for muzzleloaders.

If you look at the history of states that allowed crossbows for people with doctors notes you might be a little more concerned about it. Most of them got rid of the medical requirement within several years. There’s going to be a lot more elk getting killed during archery season when we allow everyone to use a crossbow. You know MOGA will be pushing for it because it will be good for their business.

Both bills are slippery slopes if passed.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Both bills are slippery slopes if passed.

I agree.

 

[Gerald Martin]

My goal is that my kids and your kids will be able argue about the esoteric minutia of their elk hunting in Montana, seems increasingly that goal is under siege.

One great thing about not having elk in MT is our kids can squabble over whether the winter range should be subdivided into 5 acre pieces or 20’s.

 

[mdunc8]

Might this increase the likelihood that hunters kill and retrieve the first, instead of third, bull they shoot during archery season?

 

[Ben Lamb]

This bill & the muzzleloader bill are simply bad policy.

The Fish & Wildlife Commission has the authority to do both of these, currently. By setting seasons in statute, and setting things like the crossbow for disability in statute, what the legislature is doing is eliminating the role of the Commission in Fish & Wildlife management. It also weakens the voice of the people in those decisions, as you now can no longer petition the commission for redress when these things get abused. You have to change the statute, which is infinitely more difficult than working with the commission.

The issue before us on both of these bills is not crossbows for disabled, which is already in place thanks to solid work by MBA, FWP & the commission, nor is it muzzlelaoder season dats, which the commission can set on their own, without the legislature's interference.

The independence of the commission is at stake. So is your voice in wildlife management.

I am in favor of a muzzleloader season after the general rifle season. Traditional only, front stuffers & iron sights. No inlines, scopes, etc. That can be achieved through a petition to the agency, and with commission support.

These bills are overreach, plain & simple, and they seek to further politicize & weaken MT's game management.

 

[MThuntr]

How can an additional firearm season for deer and elk during their most vulnerable time of year possibly be a good idea? What am I missing?

It's not. There is ample amount of time during general season to get the job done. If anything a muzzleloader season directly after general would be impossibly hard since animals would have been harassed for no less than 11 weeks.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I feel like I'm either taking crazy pills or hunting a different Montana than the rest of you. How can an additional firearm season for deer and elk during their most vulnerable time of year possibly be a good idea? What am I missing?

So long as it's limited to iron sights, trad smoke pole, you're basically adding a short season that a lot of folks don't participate in. Keeping it traditional means you're not chunkin' sabots at 200 yards, but sticking under 100. I'd rather see that, than shoulder seasons, so I could see the commission moving shoulder seasons back to accommodate, etc.

I think that's fairly innocuous, and given how weather patterns changing, elk movement, etc is all being modified, and that the commission has had to extends seasons more often than in the past due to lower harvest rates

I'm not 100% sold, maybe I'm old & tired. I don't know. I do know that these two bills are the bassackwards way to approach wildlife management though. Absolutely not in favor of either bill, and while I'd be supportive of having the discussion at the commission level where these things could be thoroughly explored in terms of projected impact, # of animals harvested, etc, I'm not so rigid in my thinking to not be swayed the other way.

 

[Nameless Range]

I feel like I'm either taking crazy pills or hunting a different Montana than the rest of you. How can an additional firearm season for deer and elk during their most vulnerable time of year possibly be a good idea? What am I missing?

I think the “hunting a different Montana” is some thing people need to experience.

As I wrote in my what worked for 2020, I broke out and hunted a ton of Southwest and western Montana that I had never hunted before. It fortified my belief that there are large swaths of beautiful country in Montana that are largely void of game. People need to go out and find these places because it is quite unsettling to see with three weeks of snow on the ground.

The old analogy that you can out pump your well fits. It fits for Montana as a whole, and it fits because there’s a lot of aquifers that are already dry here.

I am opposed to a muzzleloader season that would serve as an additional week of firearm hunting.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I could fill an entire thread up with pictures of truly trophy class deer that completely put their guard down once rifle season ends, and move to areas where they need to feed on public land along major roadways. You could easily gun one of these exhausted bucks down from the cab of your pickup at less than 100 yards. The vast majority of wintering ground in region 1 and 2 are on public land.

This would be a perfect way completely eliminate any hope of older age class animals surviving.

I'm getting to the point where I really don't want to be part of the direction Montana and it's hunters are headed. I honestly don't see myself hunting in five years if this trajectory holds.

I withdraw my support of having the season. I hadn't considered that.

 

[BRI]

Was talking to a good friend today about the crossbow bill. Where this has been tried in other states, due to abuse and enforcement issues, the next step down the road was to just allow crossbow during archery season without restrictions. Also, there are currently several places in Montana where you can currently hunt with a crossbow if you so choose.

 

[mtmiller]

You could easily gun one of these exhausted bucks down from the cab of your pickup at less than 100 yards. The vast majority of wintering ground in region 1 and 2 are on public land.

Not only are "older" age class bucks more susceptible, it also places additional stress on the rest of the herd that time of year when they can be very sensitive to disturbance.

 

[Brian in Montana]

We don't need crossbows in bow season or a special ML season. End of story. People that want (or need) to use a crossbow, or a muzzleloader can already do it in general season. Let's leave it alone.