Proposal to eliminate ram harvest for 5 years

[AlaskaHunter]

Southcentral Board of Game Meeting - Comments Due by March 3rd!
This meeting will cover the Southcentral Region, but there is also Proposal 204 from the Board of Game to shut down all sheep hunting in Unit 19C in the western Alaska range for five years for everyone.
Only mature rams are legal in this unit, so the proposal would eliminate sport hunting that does not substantially affect the population.

Written Comments
Written comments on proposals submitted by March 3, and March 16 for Proposals 209-211, can
be submitted/uploaded online at: www.boardofgame.adfg.alaska.gov; faxed to 907-465-6094, or
mailed to ADF&G Boards Support Section, P.O. Box 115526, Juneau, AK 99801.
Written comments on all proposals may be submitted during the meeting as record copies, with a
limitation of 10 single-sided pages. Individuals who cannot attend the meeting may submit
comments through the meeting website provided above, or via fax to (907) 465-6094. As a
practical matter, comments submitted after the board begins deliberations are likely to receive less
consideration than comments submitted earlier.

For more information about the board meeting process, please contact Kristy Tibbles at 465-6098,
or via email at [email protected].
Media Contact: Kristy Tibbles, 907-465-6098, [email protected]

 

[IDMULEYMAN]

Have they released the results of the comment period?

 

[BradA]

I’m curious as well as to how this is going to pan out

 

[IDMULEYMAN]

I’m curious as well as to how this is going to pan out

Yea I hunted this unit last fall. Saw sheep every single day but honest only saw 2 lambs the entire time. Which was concerning.

 

[338win]

Will the subsistence board follow the same rules?

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I have been saying hunting in a lot of states need to be paused so this is not a surprise at all to me. 5 years is a surprise though....

 

[IDMULEYMAN]

I have been saying hunting in a lot of states need to be paused so this is not a surprise at all to me. 5 years is a surprise though....

Idk if youll ever pause the majority of the lower 48 states but alot need to work on tag cuts/Spreading hunters out so we arent so concentrated.

 

[geetar]

What is the goal here if only legal ( towards end of lifespan ) rams are the ones being taken ? I mean I don’t have a plans of a hunt that this would affect I’m just curious.

 

[BradA]

Yea I hunted this unit last fall. Saw sheep every single day but honest only saw 2 lambs the entire time. Which was concerning.

I did as well hunt it in 22 we as well seen sheep everyday but one out of nine days, with most of the rams being 4-6 years old then hardly any 7-8 year old rams but we did see two 8 plus year old rams of which the one I killed. As far as lambs I only remember seeing two as well and maybe 8-9 ewes

 

[IDMULEYMAN]

I did as well hunt it in 22 we as well seen sheep everyday but one out of nine days, with most of the rams being 4-6 years old then hardly any 7-8 year old rams but we did see two 8 plus year old rams of which the one I killed. As far as lambs I only remember seeing two as well and maybe 8-9 ewes

Sounds like a similar experience. I saw probably 50/50 ram to ewe though. My guide kept saying it worried him not seeing any ewes. I saw only two legal rams as well and got mine the last day.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Idk if youll ever pause the majority of the lower 48 states but alot need to work on tag cuts/Spreading hunters out so we arent so concentrated.

The sad part is it's all about greed and money....if they cut hunting/tags they all loose their big fat pay checks. Most tags are already out of hand when it comes to price and if they cut tags, less NR money coming in for everything, not just tags. I know they won't do it and the way I see it a lot of hunters just don't care enough for the wild life, they just want to hunt. Resident tags should double in every single state, I still can't understand why that has not happened. IMO it's all a sh!t show due to money.

 

[IDMULEYMAN]

The sad part is it's all about greed and money....if they cut hunting/tags they all loose their big fat pay checks. Most tags are already out of hand when it comes to price and if they cut tags, less NR money coming in for everything, not just tags. I know they won't do it and the way I see it a lot of hunters just don't care enough for the wild life, they just want to hunt. Resident tags should double in every single state, I still can't understand why that has not happened. IMO it's all a sh!t show due to money.

Yea you are probably right. 95% of my experience is in idaho and the influx of hunters is crazy. I understand its good overall we need more hunters to keep hunting going but Idahos system is dated. We cant expect many herds to remain when you can hunt for 90 straight days if you archery hunt and rifle hunt on a OTC tag.

 

[Bambistew]

I highly doubt it will pass. Saving a few rams won't make more lambs. The proposal was put in by a BOG member after a meeting they had last fall and data presented. 19C had an estimated 60-70% die off. Last year's harvest was about 20-25% of normal. I know a couple different groups that hunted out there last year. One hunted 4 days and didn't even see a sheep, the other hunted 6 and saw half a dozen. Both groups have a lot of experience.

Sheep numbers are 50% or less than they were 10 years ago. Guys seeing sheep on a hunt doesn't mean the hunting is "good." I've been on probably 18-20 sheep hunts in AK, and can really only think of a couple days out of 180-200 I didn't see sheep. If you're in sheep country, you should see sheep. You can usually see 10 square miles or more. Big difference in seeing sheep and seeing a robust population. IMO, Sheep are phucked, this winter has as much snow or more than last year pretty much state wide. No rain on snow events, but most sheep ranges are 130% of normal snow pack. I hope we have an early breakup.

Guides taking clients on a camping trip will be just as big of losers as the client shelling out $20k+ and coming home empty handed.

Rams make it through the winters much better than ewes and lambs. We had a few mild winters 2014-2017+/- that helped with the die off of 2012, but we had above average winter (and winter kill) 2018-present and the last 2 years will be devastating on recruitment. Most all lambs and yearlings died, along with lots of ewes. Some areas expereinced 25-30% loss of collared ewes. I would expect similar or a bit less ram harvest this fall and next, then we're going to drop off a cliff. 3 years from now I'll bet ram harvests will be in the 250 range statewide, if that. "Normal" harvest from 1995-2020 was 700ish, last year was 400.

I don't think anyone has any answers. Really little that can be done, other than maybe shooting some wolves to help the ewes/lambs in the winter, even then it won't have that much of an effect.

The feds control maybe 1/2 the sheep country in AK, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more areas closed, in feel good measures. The State controlled areas have no limit on guides that can operate on them. Its going to be interesting to see what happens in the next few years. There are very, very few areas that are bright spots for sheep in AK, virtually every population is declining right now.

 

[BradA]

The meeting/ vote for this is this week correct?

 

[AlaskaHunter]

The sad part is it's all about greed and money....if they cut hunting/tags they all loose their big fat pay checks. Most tags are already out of hand when it comes to price and if they cut tags, less NR money coming in for everything, not just tags. I know they won't do it and the way I see it a lot of hunters just don't care enough for the wild life, they just want to hunt. Resident tags should double in every single state, I still can't understand why that has not happened. IMO it's all a sh!t show due to money.

Legal rams are 8 years or older, full curl or double broom. Harvesting legal rams would not substantially impact the population.

 

[Bambistew]

The meeting/ vote for this is this week correct?

meeting starts today, runs through mid next week. However I don't see this proposal (204) listed on the agenda. @AlaskaHunter where did you see the proposal?

 

[AlaskaHunter]

meeting starts today, runs through mid next week. However I don't see this proposal (204) listed on the agenda. @AlaskaHunter where did you see the proposal?

No the original posting was from information I got from
RHAK (Resident Hunters of Alaska) a month or so ago.
Perhaps they dropped it from the agenda?

 

[Bambistew]

I found it, it was in the supplemental proposals.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/regulations/regprocess/gameboard/pdfs/2022-2023/proposals/additional_sc.pdf

Also see a prominent guide is whining about not having enough tags. The best is this is the fall out of his own proposal in 2022. He was successful in kicking next of kin in the nuts and limiting them to a total of 3 draw sheep tags statewide, and securing 90% of the NR tags exclusively for outfitters. Whereas in the past they were all in the same pool.

He's now whimpering that one of the tags they gave to NR NOK are too valuable (big rams), it was one of his prized tags. His proposal last year was to eliminate the any ram tags in 14A due to the lack of "big" rams being killed. Consequently, ADFG slashed the total number of tags to manage for "big" rams instead of opportunity. In doing so, they cut the tags so much that there wasn't enough to even offer NR tags. hahaha.

 

[BradA]

I found it, it was in the supplemental proposals.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/regulations/regprocess/gameboard/pdfs/2022-2023/proposals/additional_sc.pdf

Also see a prominent guide is whining about not having enough tags. The best is this is the fall out of his own proposal in 2022. He was successful in kicking next of kin in the nuts and limiting them to a total of 3 draw sheep tags statewide, and securing 90% of the NR tags exclusively for outfitters. Whereas in the past they were all in the same pool.

He's now whimpering that one of the tags they gave to NR NOK are too valuable (big rams), it was one of his prized tags. His proposal last year was to eliminate the any ram tags in 14A due to the lack of "big" rams being killed. Consequently, ADFG slashed the total number of tags to manage for "big" rams instead of opportunity. In doing so, they cut the tags so much that there wasn't enough to even offer NR tags. hahaha.

Sounds like to me he shot himself in the foot.

 

[Bambistew]

The BOG is hearing arguments on this right now...

Board of Game Home, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov