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Predator Contest?

Quit caring so much about what the Anti's will use in their Fund Raising materials. Let me guess you are the guys who drive in their rear view mirror rather then looking ahead. In no way are those photos fodder for the antis. Again apparently many of you aren't watching outdoor tv. That has a bigger impression on the "non-hunters" then some photos on Facebook. No one is crying bloody murder about Pig Man and Nugent shooting pigs out of a heli with ARs on here. How does that look to the non hunter crowd? Not saying I'm against it but we're sweating the small stuff here because it's "WOLVES".
 
Zach or Travis, I agree that the stuff on outdoor TV has an impact too, but that is not the topic here. That said, most hunters find most outdoor TV laughable....and there is a natural disconnect between what is on TV and what is reality.

However, I disagree that this is the small stuff because it's wolves....the Derby made national news, and is the subject of editorials everywhere. It is far from small because it is about wolves.
 
The "War" will be won or lost by who convinces the middle of America who is right. Turning the 80% for or against will be the big question.

I fear we are our own worst enemy and the battle will be fought from within our own ranks.

That will be unfortunate.
 
MontanaWild said:
Quit caring so much about what the Anti's will use in their Fund Raising materials. Let me guess you are the guys who drive in their rear view mirror rather then looking ahead. In no way are those photos fodder for the antis. Again apparently many of you aren't watching outdoor tv. That has a bigger impression on the "non-hunters" then some photos on Facebook. No one is crying bloody murder about Pig Man and Nugent shooting pigs out of a heli with ARs on here. How does that look to the non hunter crowd? Not saying I'm against it but we're sweating the small stuff here because it's "WOLVES".
Click to expand...

I don't care for pigman or nugent. They both portray not only hunters, but all Americans in a horrble light, like honey boo-boo but for the mustachioed. :D

I was going to type out a response, but suffice it to say, wolves have a much larger constituency than feral swine do.
 
12% (young's math) represents a strong constituency Shoots...some would say we are a formidable group of alpha fringe voters...but as you point out, we can''t even agree on feeding times for the crocodile.
 
noharleyyet said:
12% (young's math) represents a strong constituency Shoots...some would say we are a formidable group of alpha fringe voters...but as you point out, we can''t even agree on feeding times for the crocodile.
Click to expand...

I think that translates to mean we are like the tea party, and Shoots is Cruz, I'm Rubio and everyone else is the republican base. :D

Seriously though, it's pretty refreshing to have a 5 page discussion, on the internet, and about wolves that has remained largely constructive. That must be some sort of record....until someone throws out the Canis Lupus Occidentalis grenade....wait, did I just do that.
 
Ben Lamb said:
I don't care for pigman or nugent. They both portray not only hunters, but all Americans in a horrble light, like honey boo-boo but for the mustachioed. :D

I was going to type out a response, but suffice it to say, wolves have a much larger constituency than feral swine do.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point Ben, I don't see any groups lining up calling themselves names like "Oinking for Justice", or "Pig Watchers". On the other hand.
Yes, we do need to worry about our image here. That's what this thread is about.

Just a few.


http://www.wolfhaven.org/
http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/
http://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/
http://www.predatordefense.org/wolves.htm
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Wolfs/140059258739 has over 15,000 likes on facebook.
 
On an unrelated note does anybody know how to modify a #5 Bridger to pull the pin on a frag grenade? Also completely unrelated, what is a safe distance to set a trail camera away from a frag?
OK back to the thread about wolf management and ethics. No mention of C.L.O needed.
 
I'm sure I'll get blasted up one side and down the other for this as my thoughts on a lot of things differ from many on here. Also, why I avoid these topics usually, but here goes, let the shots start. I also apologize if this has been stated, I didn't read every post.

You guys saying we should not have these predator contests(outlaw them, stop them, not support them, etc) because it gives fodder in a anti's fund raising campaign, to me is like saying we shouldn't have a wolf season cause it does the same thing? Hate to burst it too you guys, but if its not this, then it will be something else they bring up to raise money until all hunting is eliminated. My thoughts are if it brings more people into hunting, it is good for hunting and shooting sports alike.

Just my opinion.
 
elkmagnet Question about the hired gun and targeted packs.

If I look at the pack map from IDF&G, I see the Golden and Monument packs west of Salmon, but more importantly I notice that the entire Frank Church/Selway Area doesn't have the same concentration as surrounding areas.



Looking more at the detail the Golden and Monument packs have an unusually strong overlap. But, outside of them is a lot of territory that doesn't seem to have a pack (relatively speaking compared to the map as a whole



My question is, is that if these packs are gone, won't another pack just move into the unclaimed area. But also, looking at the Salmon area in general it seems there is a far greater concentration of wolves surrounding the Salmon area, why target the Golden and Monument packs? Are they having a disproportionate impact on elk compared to other areas/packs?
 
noharleyyet said:
12% (young's math) represents a strong constituency Shoots...some would say we are a formidable group of alpha fringe voters...but as you point out, we can''t even agree on feeding times for the crocodile.
Click to expand...


Or that burning question- What's better for elk, 270 or 30-06?
 
What I'm about to say will merely be an opinion and speculation if I am wrong and anybody has the real skinny from f&g please correct me.


jryoung said:
My question is, is that if these packs are gone, won't another pack just move into the unclaimed area.
Click to expand...
I'm sure eventually this will happen. My gut feeling is that fish and game will continue to take packs out of this area for the reasons stated below.
Kind of an open ended....

jryoung said:
But also, looking at the Salmon area in general it seems there is a far greater concentration of wolves surrounding the Salmon area, why target the Golden and Monument packs? Are they having a disproportionate impact on elk compared to other areas/packs?
Click to expand...

About your thoughts of salmon having more wolf packs then the middle of the Frank.
I see that map as being both true and a little deceiving at the same time.
It may be deceiving on one hand because they have to be a confirmed breeding pair and there's quite a strict criteria before its a confirmed pack so it's a lot harder to meet that criteria on every pack in the middle of the Frank church.
On the other hand I believe it is probably partially true because there are many more elk in the salmon area then there are in the most of the Frank. I believe that once an adolescent wolf gets kicked out of the pack he has to travel quite a ways before he gets into another area with a good pray base.
I believe most of the packs in western Idaho are descendants from one of these two packs.

I think it is in no way a coincidence that both of these wolf packs decided to take up residence along the Middle Fork. Which takes me back to your first question. It is my understanding that most of the elk from the surrounding areas in the Frank winter along the Middle Fork. I think these two packs are killing a lot of elk the don't spend the summer and fall in their territory so that makes their territorial boundaries a little deceiving in itself.

If you add in the likelihood that humans are having virtually no harvest out of these packs compared to the packs in the salmon area and on the edges of the Frank I can see why they felt this was a necessary step.
 
Last edited:
As a side note fish and game has used air gunning to take out quite a few packs across the state including ones in the salmon area and Fairfield areas to name a few. This leads me to think they have liked the results of the previous flights.
So while it may make the news around the country it's not so much news around here.
 
I am puzzled as to why so many on here have such a low opinion of "non-hunters" ability to understand conservation. I believe that for most when presented with the facts, they support conservation through hunting. Instead of trying to hide what we do, we need to present the arguments for stable population of all species including predators.

For the record I do not think Shoot Straight's photos were disrespectful, in fact I'm jealous. But I guarantee you that are anti hunters who would use these types of photos in an attempt to portray hunters as evil murders. We cannot worry about that. As long as hunting organizations make the argument for conservation through hunting, most people will support our privilege to do so.
 
elkmagnet said:
What I'm about to say will merely be an opinion and speculation if I am wrong and anybody has the real skinny from f&g please correct me.


I'm sure eventually this will happen. My gut feeling is that fish and game will continue to take packs out of this area for the reasons stated below.
Kind of an open ended....
Click to expand...

Curious as to your thoughts on this: If you could spend 50,000 every year for the next 20 years and have a gov't helo flying and whacking wolves or spend $500,000 now and have better elk habitat that allows for escape from both 2 and 4 legged carnivores, which would you prefer.

I'm a fiscal conservative, so I'd rather spend 1/2 the money and put the rest towards conserving winter habitat, but you might be different. ;)
 
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