Poached antler sales

[hossblur]

Utah DWR to auction poached antlers, furs

Hundreds of antlers and furs that were seized by the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources during poaching investigations will be auctioned to the public at the end of April, the first such auction held since 2016.

www.fox13now.com

I struggle with this. As a libertarian I don't like financial incentives for gov seizures.


As a hunter, I feel like the DWR is helping to both set a market price, and supply that market. Which, helps fuel more poaching and illegal antler/horn/ fur taking.


Thoughts?

 

[texwest44]

Well, is there really a financial incentive? These are seized, illegally owned items. The state spends more taking than it does selling, so it's hard to see any profit being made here. And the folks getting the items seized don't get anything in return, and I would imagine are also having fines and jail sentences added to their seizures. You know, committing crimes n such.

And if the state was making a profit seizing these illegally taken and possessed items, wouldn't that encourage them to go after more poachers and criminals? Isn't that a good thing?

Also, how many antlers and pelts is Utah DWR adding into the market? I can't imagine they have enough inventory to really affect market rates and demand.

But if there's something insane going on, like the state is buying back antlers that are "found" by people, then yeah that would be a massive oversight that would need immediate correction.

Also, if items are being auctioned, then it's up to the public to engage in a kind of price fixing to make sure that prices or availability don't get out of control. Not that I'm advocating price fixing.

 

[TheTone]

Usually the prices paid are well under “market” value and majority of antlers and hides are bought by people that are already in the business and not just the average guy off the street

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

I'm against it for the reason that poachers have the opportunity to buy the animal they poached. On the other hand it seems a shame for them to be destroyed or just piled in a government building somewhere.

 

[texwest44]

Whoa whoa whoa, wait, are poachers allowed to buy back their seized illegal items? Now there's some of that massive oversight I was talking about earlier. How could that possibly seem like a good idea to anyone?

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Whoa whoa whoa, wait, are poachers allowed to buy back their seized illegal items? Now there's some of that massive oversight I was talking about earlier. How could that possibly seem like a good idea to anyone?

I'm guessing there may be some preventative measures in place to help prevent it from happenig, but certainly ways around it.

 

[TheTone]

I'm against it for the reason that poachers have the opportunity to buy the animal they poached. On the other hand it seems a shame for them to be destroyed or just piled in a government building somewhere.

Illegal in Idaho and people have been prosecuted for it

 

[WYWINCHESTER]

I'm not against the state's selling confiscated goods. They need to put the money back into the issue rather then the general fund.
IE--All monies from poaching, ...firearms, antlers, trucks, houses.... Should go back into the anti-poaching coffers. The argument about a poacher buying back the same stuff is silly. If they confiscated it from him, he was , fined, jailed, penalized... Payed a penalty for the crime.
It's up for bid, set a fair reserve. You would rather them burn everything, or store it forever?

 

[hossblur]

I'm not against the state's selling confiscated goods. They need to put the money back into the issue rather then the general fund.
IE--All monies from poaching, ...firearms, antlers, trucks, houses.... Should go back into the anti-poaching coffers. The argument about a poacher buying back the same stuff is silly. If they confiscated it from him, he was , fined, jailed, penalized... Payed a penalty for the crime.
It's up for bid, set a fair reserve. You would rather them burn everything, or store it forever?

Honestly, yes, I'd prefer them destroyed.

 

[BuzzH]

Put all the money into an account to pay tipsters that result in the prosecution of a wildlife crime.

 

[jryoung]

Put all the money into an account to pay tipsters that result in the prosecution of a wildlife crime.

#commonsense

 

[Hydrophilic]

More importantly, as a libertarian, how do you feel about seizing our federal, public land and privatizing it?

 

[MTGomer]

On the other hand, not selling them reduces supply which has the effect of raising prices.

This is the argument for the sale of legally farmed rhino horn in Africa.


@Carl 9.3x62 @texwest44 idk about other states, but in Montana I know of a bull that was poached that the poacher attended the auction and tried to buy it back. The manager of the ranch (owned by billionaires) that he poached it off of was at the auction and outbid him, however.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

On the other hand, not selling them reduces supply which has the effect of raising prices.

This is the argument for the sale of legally farmed rhino horn in Africa.


@Carl 9.3x62 @texwest44 idk about other states, but in Montana I know of a bull that was poached that the poacher attended the auction and tried to buy it back. The manager of the ranch (owned by billionaires) that he poached it off of was at the auction and outbid him, however.

I've heard the same about elephant tusks. Sell the poached tusks and help fund anti poaching programs, or burn it and not contribute to the supply. A little different then what we have going on in the US admittedly, but same conundrum. There are pros and cons to each way, I'm not sure way is better though.

 

[SAJ-99]

Utah DWR to auction poached antlers, furs

Hundreds of antlers and furs that were seized by the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources during poaching investigations will be auctioned to the public at the end of April, the first such auction held since 2016.

www.fox13now.com

I struggle with this. As a libertarian I don't like financial incentives for gov seizures.


As a hunter, I feel like the DWR is helping to both set a market price, and supply that market. Which, helps fuel more poaching and illegal antler/horn/ fur taking.


Thoughts?

Not sure what being a libertarian has to do with it other than you think the government is some unified entity working against you? Some LEs spent a lot of time gathering evidence and the DA prosecuted the crime and they were found guilty. None of the government employees received anything other than their normal paycheck. For there to be an incentive for the seizure, the decision makers have to gain something from it. That might be $ or exposure or whatever. Given that our taxes pay these people to do the exact job done here and the players didn’t get anything, I am fine with the sales because it might reduce a tax burden on those that follow the law.

 

[Wildabeest]

I think another good thing that could come out of this is educating the public about poaching. It might even encourage some people to report when before they might not have. Once you see the sheer quantity of poached animals, it really opens your eyes to how pervasive the problem really is. Otherwise, all you see are the very few cases that hit the papers.

 

[hossblur]

Not sure what being a libertarian has to do with it other than you think the government is some unified entity working against you? Some LEs spent a lot of time gathering evidence and the DA prosecuted the crime and they were found guilty. None of the government employees received anything other than their normal paycheck. For there to be an incentive for the seizure, the decision makers have to gain something from it. That might be $ or exposure or whatever. Given that our taxes pay these people to do the exact job done here and the players didn’t get anything, I am fine with the sales because it might reduce a tax burden on those that follow the law.

Lete know when you get that reduced tax burden.

Reality is, judges are extremely light in charging.

A deer in Utah, is worth up to $325,000.

Yet rarely do fines even compensate us.

If you don't think there is a large poaching black market, you need to wake up.

 

[WYWINCHESTER]

Utah DWR to auction poached antlers, furs

Hundreds of antlers and furs that were seized by the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources during poaching investigations will be auctioned to the public at the end of April, the first such auction held since 2016.

www.fox13now.com

I struggle with this. As a libertarian I don't like financial incentives for gov seizures.


As a hunter, I feel like the DWR is helping to both set a market price, and supply that market. Which, helps fuel more poaching and illegal antler/horn/ fur taking.


Thoughts?

Feelings often LIE.
Reality is, judges are extremely light in charging.

Sounds like you need to change your soft judges. Are they Lib's also?? Just curios.

 

[SAJ-99]

Lete know when you get that reduced tax burden.

Reality is, judges are extremely light in charging.

A deer in Utah, is worth up to $325,000.

Yet rarely do fines even compensate us.

If you don't think there is a large poaching black market, you need to wake up.

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I understand that there is a large poaching black market. And I believe confiscated antlers should be sold to generate funds (hopefully put back into something to help the resource) and that the sale provides zero incentive for “the government” to seize more property. Those employees are simply doing their job and applying the law. Hope that clears up my point.

 

[hossblur]

Feelings often LIE.
Reality is, judges are extremely light in charging.

Sounds like you need to change your soft judges. Are they Lib's also?? Just curios.

"My" soft judges, ain't just a Utah problem.

Not sure what "libs" has to do with anything.

I "feel" like poaching sentences are weak. Mainly because they are. Generally they include hunting bans. Bans which to law abiding folks might matter. To poachers, they didn't care about hunting laws to start with.