P&Y announcement?

[pilsner]

Kept reading about some announcements that P&Y was making at their annual gala.
Rumors said it was accepting crossbow records or... a dozen other things.
Read a ton about it in the lead up but havent heard a peep since the event.
So what was their big announcement?
Thanks,
Brian

 

[TheTone]

If crossbows, ugh! I had a phone call with their social media guy regarding some sponsors of theirs and people they feature on social media. The conversation left me less than impressed, clearly wasn’t taken to heart (same people/sponsors featured), and is part of why I haven’t gotten a couple animals measured and entered

 

[Fullquiver]

If crossbows, ugh! I had a phone call with their social media guy regarding some sponsors of theirs and people they feature on social media. The conversation left me less than impressed, clearly wasn’t taken to heart (same people/sponsors featured), and is part of why I haven’t gotten a couple animals measured and entered

P&Y should be recurve/longbow no sights fingers released. Just like it started.. Today's bows wouldn't be recognized as archery equipment by Pope or Young of yesteryear. The entire challenge of archery has been lost.

 

[Foggy Mountain]

P&Y should be recurve/longbow no sights fingers released. Just like it started.. Today's bows wouldn't be recognized as archery equipment by Pope or Young of yesteryear. The entire challenge of archery has been lost.

Wish I could like this 100 times. Thanks for thinking like that brother

 

[3855WIN]

P&Y should be recurve/longbow no sights fingers released. Just like it started.. Today's bows wouldn't be recognized as archery equipment by Pope or Young of yesteryear. The entire challenge of archery has been lost.

My old Bear Whitetail 2 was fairly primitive, as well.

 

[Mudranger1]

I dont know why the elk aren't all gone since the entire archery challenge has disappeared with new bows. Come on now...yes more advanced than longbows and recurves but still minuscule success rates

 

[Foggy Mountain]

I dont know why the elk aren't all gone since the entire archery challenge has disappeared with new bows. Come on now...yes more advanced than longbows and recurves but still minuscule success rates

Who said elk should be gone because of new gear. Archery itself is or was about self limitation and challenge not to make things easiest as it is today. Guess you gotta be old school to appreciate or understand that.
Firearms I don’t think anyone disagrees with but they should be in a firearm season. Modern bows especially crossbows are closer to firearms.
Garmin just put out a self ranging scope good for 250 yards. When sold together with a ten point it’s a 4500 bow. Tell me who spends that to self limit or challenge themselves? Same for Excalibur twin strike, 2 arrows already loaded, ravin swears they’re good 100 yards. Most crossbows are if benched and many guys can’t even shoot a slug gun that far accurately.
The air bow. Now you throw bait on the ground, your camera tells you when deer show up, your scent eliminator lets you hunt anyway you want (so you think). You show up 1/2before, shoot and take a hero pic. Again challenge?
Now pope and young wants to water down an accomplishment?
No one says men can’t hunt how they want. People can do whatever but it should be in the appropriate season. It should be with appropriate gear.
Never should someone supporting a season be thought of as exclusive. They aren’t. They’re just saying we’ve got seasons set aside for archery, leave em set aside. Pope and young should be supporting that imo

 

[Mudranger1]

Who said elk should be gone because of new gear. Archery itself is or was about self limitation and challenge not to make things easiest as it is today. Guess you gotta be old school to appreciate or understand that.
Firearms I don’t think anyone disagrees with but they should be in a firearm season. Modern bows especially crossbows are closer to firearms.
Garmin just put out a self ranging scope good for 250 yards. When sold together with a ten point it’s a 4500 bow. Tell me who spends that to self limit or challenge themselves? Same for Excalibur twin strike, 2 arrows already loaded, ravin swears they’re good 100 yards. Most crossbows are if benched and many guys can’t even shoot a slug gun that far accurately.
The air bow. Now you throw bait on the ground, your camera tells you when deer show up, your scent eliminator lets you hunt anyway you want (so you think). You show up 1/2before, shoot and take a hero pic. Again challenge?
Now pope and young wants to water down an accomplishment?
No one says men can’t hunt how they want. People can do whatever but it should be in the appropriate season. It should be with appropriate gear.
Never should someone supporting a season be thought of as exclusive. They aren’t. They’re just saying we’ve got seasons set aside for archery, leave em set aside. Pope and young should be supporting that imo

I'm just sticking to the point you said the entire challenge of archery is gone...I've been hunting archery for 30 years and it's just as hard today for me to kill an animal with my new high tech bows as it was when I killed my first hog with 2 wheeled bear bow at 13 years old....do people exploit things like your saying. Of course...but. to 90% its still very much limiting yourself...I can understand the crossbow argument but then again I've never seen anyone carrying 1 in the mountains

 

[LuketheDog]

I can understand the crossbow argument but then again I've never seen anyone carrying 1 in the mountains

I've seen one, and he'd just made a bad shot on an elk. He stopped by our camp late that night tired but happy, took he and his buddies all day to find and recover the bull.

 

[Fullquiver]

I dont know why the elk aren't all gone since the entire archery challenge has disappeared with new bows. Come on now...yes more advanced than longbows and recurves but still minuscule success rates

How many game animals free range no bait recurve/longbow have you taken? Trust me the difference in skill between recurves/longbows and modern compounds is much larger than between modern compounds and crossbows that many will rail against.. Have you even shot a recurve/longbow of hunting draw weight...

BTW if success rates are your indicator of difficulty, crossbows don't have a substantial difference in that area. Look into it. When I first started hunting with archery equipment it was only recurves and longbows and the number of enthusiasts hunting with archery 10% or less if what it is today.. Because it wasn't easy. Compounds changed everything. Archery hunter numbers haven't increased because of crossbows people just changed from compounds to crossbows. The increase came from the advent of compounds.. Compounds were exponentially easier to shoot right off the bat and that was old school shooting with fingers.. Now with slings, range adjustable sight, laser rangefinders and mostly releases not to mention the speed increases in compounds. It's hardly the challenge it used to be..

You can believe what I said as I've lived in the love of archery my whole life. I owned my own archery shop, shot competitively, recurve and finger compounds. Hunted all over this country doing so. The crossbow is just the next step in this evolution in archery. Just another easy button. You might not like it but it certainly isn't the boogey man many make it into, he came a long time ago with training wheels..

 

[Mudranger1]

I really don't give 2 craps about crossbows myself, I was just trying to find some common ground maybe in your statements. It's clear that whole generations that have grown up since the invention of the compound bow aren't the same skill level as the almighty hunter/shooter you are so I will carry on with my day. And wish you the best

 

[Fullquiver]

I really don't give 2 craps about crossbows myself, I was just trying to find some common ground maybe in your statements. It's clear that whole generations that have grown up since the invention of the compound bow aren't the same skill level as the almighty hunter/shooter you are so I will carry on with my day. And wish you the best

Really not what I was trying to say? The difference between recurve/longbow proficiency isn't some mystical skill. It's time and practice. It's just is more work, a lot more. Like I said it for years it was my life I even quit firearms hunting for many years..

I shot my bow around 200-250 days a year. I loved it.. Tens of thousands of arrows a year. Still I could pick up a new bow install a customers rest and associated accessories and shoot tiny groups (better groups than I could with my recurve) even without using the proper draw length, having the peep set up for my own facial structure.

I don't care what people use crossbow, compound, recurve or longbow. I just get frustrated with the same thing that frustrated you with my post. Self righteousness. I am now disabled after a long hard bout with cancer. Everything is now a real challenge.(I pray you nor anyone else has to experience) I hunt with a crossbow and people give me grief all of the time for using it. (BTW I don't like using a crossbow. I just disliked not hunting during the fall more.) Having no idea just how hard hunting with anything is for me. Just like on this forum when people rail against crossbows for disabled hunters in "their" season. If I could have my health again I would be using my recurve bow in a second..

Realistically though there are innumerable differences between technologies of yesteryear and today. Unfortunately organizations like P&Y seem more interested in staying relevant than holding true to the original point for which they were created.. There should have been a separate organization created when compounds came into place, just like crossbow animals should never be in any vertical archery records book.. They are truly bird's of a different breed and should be treated as such..

 

[Foggy Mountain]

Fullquiver I hope you’re feeling better. I also was sorta limited I called it. Never said disabled. Had a brain tumor, ten plus hours of brain surgery. Left me deaf in one ear, dominant eye sewed up, numbness over 1/2 my body. Lots still there 4 years later.
Couldnt walk, talk or feed myself a long time. When I got home fellows brought crossbows over for me. I wouldn’t touch em at first. I really wanted to watch an arrow fly though. Took me days of trying to finally get one cocked. Used a non dominant eye, limited dexterity and put the arrow right where I wanted. Sorta disappointed me to be honest. I understand the need to shoot and also the ease of modern gear.
I teach many events, sometimes crossbows are included. Any person from old ladys to little kids can about instantly become good.
Myself I bought a really light widow and started a journey. Had to lean my head over like kids do when trying to aim when the dominant eye is on wrong side. My face was numb so I used a finger to draw across my lips and feel the mouth corner. That very fall my eye was unsewed and I was carrying a stick through woods although things were super hard. I did take a couple bucks. Was almost like the first one again it was so magical. Im now back to full weight bows.
I understand every aspect of what you’re saying. Also realize not one decent person would ever look crooked at you for doing what needs to be done to keep you out there.
I don’t believe that’s any concern. Certainly shouldn’t be one of yours.
I hope someday you get to shoot a bow again. Til than enjoy yourself and good luck buddy

 

[Fullquiver]

Fullquiver I hope you’re feeling better. I also was sorta limited I called it. Never said disabled. Had a brain tumor, ten plus hours of brain surgery. Left me deaf in one ear, dominant eye sewed up, numbness over 1/2 my body. Lots still there 4 years later.
Couldnt walk, talk or feed myself a long time. When I got home fellows brought crossbows over for me. I wouldn’t touch em at first. I really wanted to watch an arrow fly though. Took me days of trying to finally get one cocked. Used a non dominant eye, limited dexterity and put the arrow right where I wanted. Sorta disappointed me to be honest. I understand the need to shoot and also the ease of modern gear.
I teach many events, sometimes crossbows are included. Any person from old ladys to little kids can about instantly become good.
Myself I bought a really light widow and started a journey. Had to lean my head over like kids do when trying to aim when the dominant eye is on wrong side. My face was numb so I used a finger to draw across my lips and feel the mouth corner. That very fall my eye was unsewed and I was carrying a stick through woods although things were super hard. I did take a couple bucks. Was almost like the first one again it was so magical. Im now back to full weight bows.
I understand every aspect of what you’re saying. Also realize not one decent person would ever look crooked at you for doing what needs to be done to keep you out there.
I don’t believe that’s any concern. Certainly shouldn’t be one of yours.
I hope someday you get to shoot a bow again. Til than enjoy yourself and good luck buddy

Eerily similar story to mine. It's good to be here and above the grass..

 

[Shangobango]

My main reason for archery hunting is to extend my season and get more hunting opportunity. It is more challenging for sure but if there is a rifle season open where I want to hunt and when I want to hunt I am not grabbing my bow, not even my crossbow. I don’t begrudge those who do grab the bow, it just doesn’t make sense to me personally.

Comparing a crossbow to a firearm is ludicrous. Basic physics easily disproves that notion but that is a whole other conversation.

I am not a fan of the scopes that you can sync to some doodad that reads wind and humidity and have the dope for the shot automatically calculated and input. When is B&C going to start making that a DQ?

I thought P&Y and B&C was supposed to be about the animal and not the hunter anyway.

 

[pilsner]

So what im gathering from the responses is that no one actually knows what the P&Y announcement was, and that we all love to argue and bitch about how other people hunt...
:/
Thanks.

 

[Mudranger1]

So what im gathering from the responses is that no one actually knows what the P&Y announcement was, and that we all love to argue and bitch about how other people hunt...
:/
Thanks.

Correction....I like to bitch about people bitchin! Could care less what they choose to hunt with ...but no I do not know of any announcement

 

[Foggy Mountain]

I thought P&Y and B&C was supposed to be about the animal and not the hunter anyway.

Pope and young is about the animal only when taken with a bow. BC does everything

 

[elkhnter]

The subject was mentioned by one speaker and ask in the q&a. You could have heard a pin drop. It was stated that there is another organization recording crossbow harvests, P&Y will not.

 

[Shangobango]

Pope and young is about the animal only when taken with a bow. BC does everything

So it isn't about the animal, it's about the method, which is fine.

I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that ethically taking an animal with a compound bow takes as much skill as ethically taking an animal with a traditional bow. Same for crossbow vs. compound.

I am surprised that P&Y doesn't have categories that separately account for those three methods of take or at least categories for traditional vs. compound.