OTC AZ Archery Units closed

[Flatbrimmer]

When I saw the "Hunting Public" show up in Arizona I knew it was going to be the beginning of the end. lol

Last year, HP put a video of them shooting a good buck about 50 yards from where I hunt on public ground in GA. That was fine but then they proceeded to show a hunt re-cap of them with the deer at the road with the only gas line marker on the entire place behind them.

So far this year there is 5 treestands within 200 yards of that spot and it is in a place on public land where I have never seen a hunter in the last 7 years. lol

They probobly are pretty nice guys and I will give it to them, they were hunting a good spot but I hope they dont intend to replicate those results in the next 10 years. lol

Showing hunting of public land on TV is a double edged sword.

HAHA! Sometimes I wish wish Rinella or Randy would do that around here… sometimes I wonder if I’ve waved at one of them as you notice other hunters across the draw and head the other direction… that’s a shame man I’m sorry to hear about that.

 

[Mallardsx2]

HAHA! Sometimes I wish wish Rinella or Randy would do that around here… sometimes I wonder if I’ve waved at one of them as you notice other hunters across the draw and head the other direction… that’s a shame man I’m sorry to hear about that.

Its public land. I got no problem with anyone hunting there. I just wish they would be more discreet on their footage.

 

[DouglasR]

So as a guy who got into western hunting line 3 years ago because social media influencers made it sound cool I just want you to know that your constant bickering about how the sport’s gone to hell seriously makes me think about sitting out and just building points until I’m older.
It ebbs and flows

 

[BlakeA]

seriously makes me think about sitting out and just building points until I’m older.

Those points will be even more worthless than they already are.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Its public land. I got no problem with anyone hunting there. I just wish they would be more discreet on their footage.

I understand!

 

[LuketheDog]

The reality hunting in the west is on its way out. Try to find a camping spot in a campground. Getting harder, soon it will be reservations for a campsite like a hotel. Then they will do environmental impact on wildlife and you will have to get a permit or reservation to hike. Tags will all be limited, covid sped the process up influencers put the peddle to the floor. We will turn into the European model of pay to hunt. That’s dooms day scenario but unfortunately that seems to be the way we are heading. Social media was the boot on the throat of public hunting.
We are loving it to death.

Wow, I bet you're fun at parties

 

[BlakeA]

Wow, I bet you're fun at parties

He's not wrong

 

[LuketheDog]

He's not wrong

You know that for a fact?

 

[FlatlanderAZ]

You know that for a fact?

Well, not to get too far off track because this should probably become it’s own topic, but yes it’s a fact that the value of bonus points is reduced every year. Because demand far exceeds supply of tags available, each year more people acquire tags than get drawn and have their points reduced to 0. If you’ve been building points for 3 years, you’ll never catch up to the point holders ahead of you who have been buying points for decades. If you’d like to discuss this further start up a thread and people will post up all sorts of charts and graphs.

 

[LuketheDog]

Well, not to get too far off track because this should probably become it’s own topic, but yes it’s a fact that the value of bonus points is reduced every year. Because demand far exceeds supply of tags available, each year more people acquire tags than get drawn and have their points reduced to 0. If you’ve been building points for 3 years, you’ll never catch up to the point holders ahead of you who have been buying points for decades. If you’d like to discuss this further start up a thread and people will post up all sorts of charts and graphs.

Not at all what I was talking about...

 

[Bigjay73]

There's going to be over a half of a billion people in this country in 50 years, you really think that you won't need a reservation to do anything on public lands at that point? Quite possible the only public lands left at that point will be national forests, parks and monuments.

 

[338win]

There's going to be over a billion people in this country in 50 years, you really think that you won't need a reservation to do anything on public lands at that point? Quite possible the only public lands left at that point will be national forests, parks and monuments.

About half that number is more likely. 434 million so 100 million more by 2100.

 

[Bigjay73]

About half that number is more likely. 434 million so 100 million more by 2100.

I fixed it. I've seen different projections within 10% of 500 million

 

[Bigjay73]

Regardless if its 430 million people or 1 billion, CPW will still sell OTC archery elk tags

 

[BlakeA]

You know that for a fact?

For a fact? No. But if you look at how things are trending and have been over the past 3-5 years I would lean towards @timmy 's guestimate becoming the reality more so than being optimistic about where things are heading.

@LuketheDog do you see this slowing down or truly getting better down the road? I guess I just have a hard time feeling good about where this is all heading.

 

[Pedropistola]

I’ve been on the road four of the last five days and I now have a few minutes on my lunch break to chime in.

I asked AZ G&F if they were OK with me telling the world that I am the “influencer” their ad agency has chosen to work with for coordinating the hunting part of the AZ G&F communications plan. For confidentiality reasons implied in contracts, they did not want to give my name, nor would their ad agency. I have no concerns about them letting the world know that we are the group coordinating that project, and they have given me permission to tell that we are that group referred to in the email.

So here goes.

We have a contract with the ad agency that does a lot of work for AZ G&F. Our contract is to produce directed video content, hire other media platforms, and use our media production skills and video/podcast platforms to create content that promotes small game hunting, quail and dove hunting, the AZ G&F landowner relations program, help raise awareness of non-resident youth licenses, promote archery javelina opportunity and show table fare of javelina as part of a bigger “hunt for food” effort, OTC archery Coues deer, waterfowl hunting, the conservation work being done by AZ G&F, show the total value of an Arizona non-resident hunting license, explain how AZ G&F policy works as it relates to population management, help raise funds for access and habitat, promote thee AZ Big Game Super Raffle, make non-residents aware of how the AZ draw process works and the deadlines for such.

We have implemented a plan that uses our platforms and other key media platforms. When helpful, we contract with other groups to reach their audiences with the same message.

With the changes in mule deer hunts this coming season, a lot of the focus has been on the promotion work we have been hired to do, with some claiming that to be the cause for the changes in archery mule deer hunts. We’ve never promoted archery mule deer hunting while we have been there. Seeing the fluctuations of mule deer in AZ and knowing their policy for season adjustments related to fluctuations, I told them we would not be promoting OTC archery mule deer. They were good with that.

Even though they have mechanisms in place to protect the resource when archery hunts result in more than the “20% by archery” harvest threshold, I feel mule deer are far more susceptible to hunting pressure than Coues deer. Thus, we, and any group hunting with us as part of this contract, only hunted OTC archery Coues deer, in addition to the small game species we hunt.

You will notice that the AZ G&F folks who are in our content are all small game or landowner relations managers. The ad agency instructs us to coordinate with the department to include the personnel who can help deliver the message we have been asked to provide. Which personnel joins us is determined by the agency, which have been the department personnel who are in charge of small game, science, and landowner relations. Which media platforms join us is something I suggest to AZ G&F with them giving final approval to the rotation of those groups.

I’m very proud of the work we have done with AZ G&F and their ad agency. The plan AZ G&F and their agency have crafted is being looked at by other states. Since we started this, other states that are aware of this work have approached us to do the same. I have politely declined those other solicitations.

As I have stated on other recent threads on this forum, it is not a new idea for wildlife and tourism departments to use ad/communication firms to build communication and marketing plans. And to use those agencies to help departments implement those plans. It is done in fishing, hunting, non-game issues, public awareness, you name it. This is how it is done in the business world, with forward-thinking state agencies adopting many of these business tactics.

If you watch many of the TV shows, look to see how many of them are sponsored by tourism and game agencies. I have done this same work for other states at other times. Some shows have made it a huge part of their work. For us, it is less than 5% of our revenue.

The agency used by AZ G&F and the department itself, have a very precise plan for what they want to accomplish. They have done surveys and used other metrics to determine the results they hoped to achieve.

We have been talking over the last six months of whether or not we should promote hunting this fall, due to the impacts of the extended multi-year drought. Last year, we did not hunt rabbits due to the hemorrhagic disease that has hit rabbits hard in the southwest. That was by design, in response to a disease outbreak. We shifted from hunting Mearn’s quail to Gamble’s, due to the moisture patterns of 2020 that helped Gamble’s and hurt Mearn’s. That was by design, in response to drought.

One of the goals when we set out on this project was to see that the hundreds of unsold archery javelina tags got sold rather than a resource going unused. That finally happened last year. With all of that, we have been in discussions as to what degree of promotion is helpful and prudent in a year of extended drought such as this. I have told them I am happy to defer or discontinue the contract if that is what is best in this drought situation. We have agreed to see what the monsoon moisture is for this summer and make a decision in September.

So, with their permission, I am providing this information. I guess the podcast and social media world thinks this is some big mystery that somehow explains the long-standing AZ G&F policy for when they increase/decrease mule opportunity as it relates to population and harvest data. I'll post some details of how the policy guideline works.

I’m happy to have this out there for the world to see. I’m on the road for the next ten days, but I’ll try to chime in when I have a connection.

Thanks for replying directly @Big Fin , I appreciate it. I also appreciate the information provided and as much transparency as you could give. It will likely curtail some discussions.

I think you did a good job of promoting that hunt, along with everyone else that was down there with you. The interest in coues deer, and AZ OTC archery in general, from residents and non-residents alike, has definitely increased in recent years and I'm sure you had something to do with that, otherwise they probably wouldn't be paying you. You've no doubt done a great job of showing what opportunities Arizona has for hunters over the years, which I'm sure has led to increased revenue for AZGFD and hopefully in turn more/better management. I guess now it's up to the residents to decide if they're happy or not with AZGFD paying influencers to come down and promote anymore hunts. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but I believe 27 units were closed to all deer and not just mule deer this year. It hasn't seemed to bother them much yet though.

I am curious why you decided to decline this opportunity in other states with the success of this plan, would you do it over again in AZ if given the chance to go back? Do you think those hunts would have been cancelled regardless if you were promoting it?

 

[DouglasR]

@LuketheDog do you see this slowing down or truly getting better down the road? I guess I just have a hard time feeling good about where this is all heading.

yes because people like me who got into this when it was a fad have already moved onto new things like sending phat licks.
the scenes’s getting played out.

 

[Pedropistola]

So as a guy who got into western hunting line 3 years ago because social media influencers made it sound cool I just want you to know that your constant bickering about how the sport’s gone to hell seriously makes me think about sitting out and just building points until I’m older.
It ebbs and flows

Sounds like you need to rethink why you are hunting to me. A lot of people consider it a lifestyle more than a sport. Maybe listen and try to understand why people are saying it's going to hell. You'll realize there has been drastic changes since you and a lot of others got involved. Also, buying points for the long-term at this point is pretty dumb if you ask me. Look up some numbers and articles/talks on the subject. If you want to be a hunter, hunt, and get actively involved with conservation.

 

[DouglasR]

Sounds like you need to rethink why you are hunting to me. A lot of people consider it a lifestyle more than a sport. Maybe listen and try to understand why people are saying it's going to hell. You'll realize there has been drastic changes since you and a lot of others got involved. Also, buying points for the long-term at this point is pretty dumb if you ask me. Look up some numbers and articles/talks on the subject. If you want to be a hunter, hunt, and get actively involved with conservation.

Dude,
I feel your pain. Trust me.
Do you think I like sharing my park (green acres @copper mountain) w/ all these covid era gappers that only hit the hill for tinder pics and because they can’t get blacked out downtown right now because of covid?
sad.

 

[Pedropistola]

Dude,
I feel your pain. Trust me.
Do you think I like sharing my park (green acres @copper mountain) w/ all these covid era gappers that only hit the hill for tinder pics and because they can’t get blacked out downtown right now because of covid?
sad.

Then you understand what all the bickering is about, and maybe why it's a good thing. There are a lot of things at stake right now that can drastically change the future of hunting. Especially out West with the droughts, fires, population increases, access issues, tag allocation decisions, ballot box science, etc. I'll bicker as much as I can to try and get the most and best hunting opportunities possible and to protect the public lands from being totally wrecked