NY Lead Ammo Ban - Passed Assembly

[Beignet]

Hey NY hunters on HT (I think there’s a few of ya). I haven’t lived in NY for a while, but still help out on the policy side with a conservation group there.

If you didn’t already know, the Assembly recently passed A5728, a statewide ban on lead ammo for hunting on public land. The bill is off to the Senate now as S5058.

I personally use non-toxic ammo where appropriate, but agree with NYDEC; this should be their call and more of an outreach issue than a law on the books. You know how it goes, some legislators just vote for a seemingly feel-good thing without knowing the actual ramifications. Other legislators might be voting for anything that seems to limit access to “gun stuff.” Let them know how you feel. I’ve found on some past issues that legislators though they were doing right by sportsmen, only to find out the legislation was misguided when they heard from constituents.

Any NYBHA members might’ve seen an action alert on this recently. I believe there’s one on their NY Chapter website of not in your inbox.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm starting to see the hand writing on the wall, this is going to start happening more and more.

I've already developed loads for all copper in most of my rifles and starting to stock up on all copper components. Just ordered a few hundred all copper bullets day before yesterday for my .243/6mm.

Bought a bunch of all copper stuff for my only muzzleloader as well.

I'll continue to use lead but imo, it makes sense to start realizing things are likely going to change. Plan accordingly.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Hey NY hunters on HT (I think there’s a few of ya). I haven’t lived in NY for a while, but still help out on the policy side with a conservation group there.

If you didn’t already know, the Assembly recently passed A5728, a statewide ban on lead ammo for hunting on public land. The bill is off to the Senate now as S5058.

I personally use non-toxic ammo where appropriate, but agree with NYDEC; this should be their call and more of an outreach issue than a law on the books. You know how it goes, some legislators just vote for a seemingly feel-good thing without knowing the actual ramifications. Other legislators might be voting for anything that seems to limit access to “gun stuff.” Let them know how you feel. I’ve found on some past issues that legislators though they were doing right by sportsmen, only to find out the legislation was misguided when they heard from constituents.

Any NYBHA members might’ve seen an action alert on this recently. I believe there’s one on their NY Chapter website of not in your inbox.

Yes, it's hard to know how likely it is to pass. We've seen a lot of bills pass the assembly and then die in a corner before getting through the senate. NYBHA has been pretty outspoken. I agree that a law like this is not the way to go about changing people's bullets, especially as the law only affects hunters on state land... I also agree with Buzz that the writing is on the wall. I've voluntarily switched everything over to non-toxic at this point, except turkey, and .22 squirrells. I'll probably make the turkey change soon, I'm just sore about the prices! Grouse were tougher too, but I picked up a box of steel 6's recently and I'm going to try those next year.

If it does pass, hopefully the legislature will find ammo for everyone!

 

[Dougfirtree]

Here is a link the NYBHA's statement and a link within to send a note to your NY rep (for the one or two others on here).

New York State Lead Ammunition Ban Legislation

Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.

www.backcountryhunters.org

 

[Beignet]

Yes, it's hard to know how likely it is to pass. We've seen a lot of bills pass the assembly and then die in a corner before getting through the senate. NYBHA has been pretty outspoken. I agree that a law like this is not the way to go about changing people's bullets, especially as the law only affects hunters on state land... I also agree with Buzz that the writing is on the wall. I've voluntarily switched everything over to non-toxic at this point, except turkey, and .22 squirrells. I'll probably make the turkey change soon, I'm just sore about the prices! Grouse were tougher too, but I picked up a box of steel 6's recently and I'm going to try those next year.

If it does pass, hopefully the legislature will find ammo for everyone!

I’m in the same boat, had a copper epiphany when seeing a golden eagle feasting on the remnants of last year’s deer carcass the day after I shot it using Sierra Game Kings. I think I got most of the shot up meat, but that bird sure was handsome. Would hate to have contributed to its detriment at all.

Perfectly fine with lead on small game out the .22 or on upland critters. Missing grouse with that $$$$$ tungsten shot would ruin me financially, ha!

One of the guises of the NY bill was to “protect water quality,” but I didn’t see a darn thing about limiting lead weights and lures when fishing. Moreover, DEC has been working on an initiative to promote non-toxic ammo, I’d rather see what they come up with before seeing any laws codified.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m in the same boat, had a copper epiphany when seeing a golden eagle feasting on the remnants of last year’s deer carcass the day after I shot it using Sierra Game Kings. I think I got most of the shot up meat, but that bird sure was handsome. Would hate to have contributed to its detriment at all.

Perfectly fine with lead on small game out the .22 or on upland critters. Missing grouse with that $$$$$ tungsten shot would ruin me financially, ha!

One of the guises of the NY bill was to “protect water quality,” but I didn’t see a darn thing about limiting lead weights and lures when fishing. Moreover, DEC has been working on an initiative to promote non-toxic ammo, I’d rather see what they come up with before seeing any laws codified.

What I find impressive with some hunters is that they start to be concerned on their own without being forced to make changes. Give them information they start to think.

What I find awkward with the green crowd at times is how they pretty much give a pass to wind turbines that kill eagles, bats, etc as well as potentially impacting migration corridors, etc.

Not that we shouldn't care as hunters, but it's a bit lonely at times as it seems we're the only ones that do.

 

[Big Fin]

The mandatory (CA and NY) vs. voluntary approach is interesting. Some of the prior data shows that Arizona has higher voluntary compliance in the areas around Grand Canyon than what California has from a program that requires mandatory compliance. Those numbers were from a few years ago, so not sure if they still apply today.

Point being, I prefer the voluntary and education approach over the mandatory approach, especially with the great non-lead options that are available these days.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm starting to see the hand writing on the wall, this is going to start happening more and more.

I've already developed loads for all copper in most of my rifles and starting to stock up on all copper components. Just ordered a few hundred all copper bullets day before yesterday for my .243/6mm.

Bought a bunch of all copper stuff for my only muzzleloader as well.

I'll continue to use lead but imo, it makes sense to start realizing things are likely going to change. Plan accordingly.

Agreed.

Mostly I haven't had an issue with a couple of exceptions, shotgun slugs... I know federal and other make them but I've never seen copper slugs on the shelf, and turkey loads... I'm sorry $15 a shell is stupid.

 

[Beignet]

Agreed.

Mostly I haven't had an issue with a couple of exceptions, shotgun slugs... I know federal and other make them but I've never seen copper slugs on the shelf, and turkey loads... I'm sorry $15 a shell is stupid.

The shotgun slugs are a great point I just took to the group. There’s a shotgun season in Long Island and a few other densely populated areas that are overrun with deer, who create a profound ecological impact. Archery hunters aren’t able make a big enough dent. This ban would be pretty detrimental to bringing down whitetail populations the way DEC and landowners would like to see.

 

[thomas89]

Definitely making the switch on my own, so much good research out there showing it's not only good for the environment but limits lead ingestion in people as well. Shot last years buck with a 54 cal slug from a muzzleloader, and before that the last critter I shot with lead was an elk in 2014 with a Trophy Bonded Tip.

Bit of a bummer to not be able to hunt with some of my favorite guns until I can get a non-toxic load worked up, but there are bigger injustices in the world at the moment. Think I found something from that Hammer company in .375 I'll be trying to work a load up for this summer.

Agreed, not a fan of the forced switch, but spread the word to your friends you ain't cool unless you're slingin' copper.

 

[Dougfirtree]

I see copper slugs on the shelf pretty often up here, actually. Or, at least I did when I paid attention to them. And @Beignet , fyi, they did away with lead sinkers here, years ago. You can only buy the non-toxic ones now.

Hopefully DEC is able to sway the legislature on this one. I doubt that hunters will be able to get through to enough reps to turn this around. It's hard to have any faith for our legislature, but DEC got them to pass some really great changes to deer hunting regs this year, so...

 

[Brandon270]

We have been dealing with hunting lead free in CA for a little while now. Large game bullets perform well thankfully, but I've had poor accuracy with lead free 22lr. I get a lot more crippled doves shooting #6 steel than I ever did when I could hunt lead shot. I haven't had an opportunity to take a coyote with copper yet but I fear it wouldn't expand quick enough before punching through.

I understand the environment/health concerns of lead based ammo, but it makes it tough to find ammo at times especially close to hunting season even when there isn't an ammo shortage.

 

[Beignet]

I see copper slugs on the shelf pretty often up here, actually. Or, at least I did when I paid attention to them. And @Beignet , fyi, they did away with lead sinkers here, years ago. You can only buy the non-toxic ones now.

Hopefully DEC is able to sway the legislature on this one. I doubt that hunters will be able to get through to enough reps to turn this around. It's hard to have any faith for our legislature, but DEC got them to pass some really great changes to deer hunting regs this year, so...

I stand corrected on the tackle. Looks like a lot of New England also has related laws on the books as well.

There goes my one “Whaddaboutism” opportunity that seems to comprise most political arguments these days.

Edit - RE: DEC & the legislative process - I believe DEC also has Gov. Hochul's ear. I was surprised but happy to hear that she vetoed the regional antler point restriction bills that passed both chamber unanimously, but was against DEC's wishes.

 

[Dougfirtree]

I stand corrected on the tackle. Looks like a lot of New England also has related laws on the books as well.

There goes my one “Whaddaboutism” opportunity that seems to comprise most political arguments these days.

Edit - RE: DEC & the legislative process - I believe DEC also has Gov. Hochul's ear. I was surprised but happy to hear that she vetoed the regional antler point restriction bills that passed both chamber unanimously, but was against DEC's wishes.

Yeah, when it comes to NY hunting law, you really need the ear of someone like the governor, or the head of the DEC to get through to the rest. The legislature is largely a group of people who don't know and don't care, when it comes to hunting, but associate us with guns, which are naughty.

 

[jryoung]

Holy crap, takes effect Jan 1, 2023. No lube, no foreplay just bend over and take it. What a pile of shit. And I'm an absolute lover of copper and won't shoot anything else.

 

[Sdolan617]

CA checking... don't

We have been dealing with hunting lead free in CA for a little while now. Large game bullets perform well thankfully, but I've had poor accuracy with lead free 22lr. I get a lot more crippled doves shooting #6 steel than I ever did when I could hunt lead shot. I haven't had an opportunity to take a coyote with copper yet but I fear it wouldn't expand quick enough before punching through.

I understand the environment/health concerns of lead based ammo, but it makes it tough to find ammo at times especially close to hunting season even when there isn't an ammo shortage.

Agree... the lead-ban combined with CA's asinine online ammo purchase restrictions is a fricken disaster

 

[hossblur]

Um.

What if. Hunters spearheaded these no lead campaigns? Yup theirs plenty of what about ism to be had. But that doesn't mean lead is a great idea

Lead ain't real great for the brain, not good for birds either.

 

[Beignet]

Um.

What if. Hunters spearheaded these no lead campaigns? Yup theirs plenty of what about ism to be had. But that doesn't mean lead is a great idea

Lead ain't real great for the brain, not good for birds either.

Lead paint chips are the best tasting paint chips and I’m living proof that they ain’t bad for ya.

On a more serious note, sportsman’s groups in NY are stakeholders in working with DEC to try and implement a more voluntary approach and make it non-toxic ammo use more palatable. I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say I’d prefer to see wildlife managers make the call on anything wildlife related instead of a legislature. DEC is already working on this and lawmakers are jumping the gun.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

lead free or leaded,,cant get hardly any ammo out here in oregon yet,,shelfs at bimart have been empty for 2+years now.I have no idea how the daily shootings in portland metro area now take place on a daily basis?used to be not nearly as common as its been now everynight on the local news. l o l

 

[JLS]

I haven't had an opportunity to take a coyote with copper yet but I fear it wouldn't expand quick enough before punching through.

I can assure you a 62 grain Barnes out of an AR 15 does plenty of damage to anchor a coyote in a hurry. I field tested it a number of times.