NR - AK unguided sheep/goat/bear

[Lawnboy]

Great Idea Bambi. I just hope and pray that they don't get rid of NOK hunting When you look at the total harvest numbers of both residents and NOK versus outfitters it's insanely lopsided on the outfitters side. I don't believe we are really that big of threat.

 

[jryoung]

As an alternative, Bambi I'd pay you to adopt me until I drew...could i pay you in whiskey....just thinking out loud.

 

[mdhunter61]

I'm in bigtime, good luck Ivan! I've seen nice grizzlies on almost every AK hunt I've done, would love to be able to go after them!

 

[rmyoung1]

Ok, so when is this going to become a reality? I literally have money burning holes in my pockets as we speak.

 

[rjlefty3]

I'd be in on this. A dall sheep is on my bucket list!

 

[Dave N]

Was that big earthquake you got a result of the collective jaws dropping at the thoughts of this? I still keep up on things up there and saw that this morning.

From the replies here it sounds like this idea may go over pretty big with NR folks. Alaska is a dream hunt to most of us Lower 48ers. Not having to pay thousands to an outfitter would be great. I'm saving some of my overtime pay just in case it actually happens!

 

[swmt]

I would be very supportive of anything that gave me a chance at an sheep tag without the guide.

 

[Hem]

Absolutely would be interested in a raffle which could offer a chance to hunt sheep/goat unguided.

 

[Steve O]

Kodiak Goat tag--there are some hunts that can be done from Forest Service Cabins. Lots of residents uses a transporter of some type whether boat or plane to high country lake. That would be awesome.

Kodiak bear tag!


Sheep tag would be my least wanted as I think that would be the absolute most difficult to do from the lower 48.

I've hunted brown bears watching goats the whole time and have hunted AK moose, caribou, blacktail, and black bear on my own. I would have better off hunting the brown bear on my own with my longbow than with the "guide" I was with and my 338...

Good luck.

And actually a couple of my friends (NR) met with one of the state house representatives this fall in Fairbanks after their moose hint about some limited NR grizzly hunts. They hunt moose in an area that has no outfitters hunting bear so it would not be taking $$$$$ out of any outfitters pockets. And that is what the AK and WY guide laws are all about.

 

[Bambistew]

The issue with NOK is that it really doesn't do what it was intended... allow kids or close family to come back to hunt with parents or siblings. What happens is someone's brother or sister moves up (usually temporarily, average time in AK is about 5-6 years, we have a huge military population) and their sibling or in-law comes up to hunt. Of probably 60 some NOK hunters that I know of, only one was a child of some one who lived here for a long time. All the rest are relatives of recent or fairly recent relocators. This is the sticking point... AK is similar to MT with respect to the feeling of NR hunters.

To be honest I don't care one way or another about NOK, and the special treatment it allows. I'd much rather see it equal across the board.

You'd be surprised lawnboy, NOK have a success rate around 50%, and a counts for about 10% of the take and 22-25% of NR. It's a significant portion. Also it doesn't help that NOK is more successful than residents on average. Stats are what we read into them, even though it can easily be explained by the fact that so many residents say they are sheep hunting when they are just riding around on an ATV in sheep country.

I'd be surprised if they go with no guide for bears anytime soon. Although, since we hate predators we should... situations can go sideways pretty easy I think.

The guide influence runs deep in a lot of areas, not just the big 3. it's amazing that a few hundred guides can control/influence the actions of 10'S of thousands.

 

[jimss]

Nok

Bambistew, would you agree that nonres guided hunters have higher % harvest success than Alaska residents? Do you agree that nonres guided hunters also likely have higher harvest success than NOK hunters? If NOK tags are eliminated and the same proportion of tags go to nonres that means that there would be more guided hunters with even higher success rates than the current NOK + guided nonres.

I'm not sure where your stats are coming from where NOK hunters have higher success rates than Alaska residents? It doesn't make any sense that NOK hunters would have any better or worse chance of success than Alaska residents that likely know the country well and have likely spent time in the country they hunt?

It also doesn't make any sense in regard to the statement that NOK isn't doing what it was intended to do. Alaska residents that are fortunate enough to live in Alaska probably enjoy sharing their Alaska experience with their families. Second degree of kindred is 2nd degree of kindred whether it is a brother, sister or whatever. An Alaska resident is an Alaska resident whether they are military, native, or born in Alaska native...end of story! Why would anyone want to screw up NOK for Alaska families and relatives that enjoy sharing Alaska experiences together?

 

[BuzzH]

Right on cue Sebastian is worrying about himself over others...as per always.

IMO, every AK resident should be able guide a NR hunter each year, just like WY's law in dealing with wilderness. Either that or get rid of the NOK law and do a random draw for ALL NR hunters for sheep, grizzlies, and goats.

The difficulty and./or danger of AK hunts in regard to the actual hunting part are over-played. The most difficult part is the logistics and the weather. I would argue that the internet and information sharing have even reduced the difficulty in figuring out the logistics end of things. Better gear, satellite phones, GPS's, etc. have negated any viable reason to argue the safety issue in relation to needing a guide.

 

[jimss]

Alaska conditions

No worries Buzz, I've been hunting and fishing self-guided in Alaska for the past 35 years with great success and have learned a great deal about weathering storms and being prepared for the worse conditions. Like usual I'm sticking up for OnYourOwn Alaska residents plus their OnYourOwn families being able to hunt together! I don't see anything wrong with that? I'm all in favor of converting all nonres guided tags over nonres...irregardless of whether they are guided or not. I'd also be all in favor of allowing any nonres to hunt Wyo wilderness without a guide!

 

[BuzzH]

Sebastian,

If the NOK didn't benefit you...you would need a hanky to wipe the tears from your keyboard.

What about the OYO hunters who don't have family there but want to hunt AK without a guide?'

Since you're in a different situation, they don't matter...

 

[jimss]

Buzz, I am 100% in favor of supporting those that want to hunt unguided in Alaska and Wyoming wilderness! I hope this catches wind and becomes a reality! Glad to see you are in favor of both as well!

 

[Bambistew]

Jims, not going to argue with you about stats. I know what they are... NOK success rates are almost twice the "average" resident, because they come prepared, and make it happen, and their NOK usually is experienced. Big difference between that and the average hunter. 2/3 of res sheep hunters every year are on their first hunt.

Like I said I really don't care one way or the other with NOK, but will advocate that the current guided/unguided split be maintained. No matter what happens.

NOK were screwed over with the Kodiak tags, their pool of tags comes from the resident pool, and they're limited to 4, I believe! The split is 40/60 nr/res. Most NR tags are nearly 100% draw, while res draw hovers areound 7%. Really not much that can be done to increase draw for tss, but the high draw sucess disenfranchises res. There are rumblings about doing the same with sheep. NR tags should come from the NR pool, period. What ever that may be, guided or not.

I would much rather see it be fair across the board, and allow any NR hunt. Guided hunts won't go away.

There are all sorts of things on the table for changes. I have no idea what will shake out, but you can bet that I will not sacrifice resident opportunity over NR, regardless of kinship. I would expect every other state's residents to do the same.

 

[jimss]

I guess we can agree to disagree on NOK vs Alaska res harvest success! If you don't mind please include the stats web page in your next post with NOK vs Alaska res vs nonres guided harvest success data? It would be great if you can back up your statements above with data?

I know for a fact you are wrong in regard to most nonres draw odds are 100% while Alaska res draw odds hover around 7%. It only takes a couple minutes looking through the draw odds report to see nonres draw odds are similar to residents for sheep, goat, and grizz. Nonres draw a fraction of the total limited sheep, goat, and grizz tags with only a handful of tags going to nonres..similar to % for other high demand tags in Western states.

Take a look at the last page of this document: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/a...83BAF3C96E19D1A/2016-2017_draw_supplement.pdf

 

[Lawnboy]

I will not sacrifice resident opportunity over NR, regardless of kinship. I would expect every other state's residents to do the same.

Seems like most do by using caps on draws etc.... Can't blame you.

I thought I had read somewhere that the numbers were really lopsided for guided hunters versus non. I suppose I'm getting lumped into the "guided" category as a NOK hunter. Would be interesting to see some factual stats regarding both. To be honest every time I go I think of so many of my hunter friends that would love to do these hunts but financially will never be able to. This draw idea would at least allow them a chance.

I had read this proposal a couple years ago put out by the Alaska Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. I'm not sure if it's the same general idea that you have or not Ivan?
http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/AK BHA Sheep Proposal 2014 Region III meeting.pdf

 

[jimss]

The proposal makes a lot of sense to me. My guess is that outfitters heavily lobbied against this proposal?

It's pretty easy to over look the obvious when quarreling over who gets what tags. What about sheep, grizz, and goat health and population? In the unit I sheep hunted this year the biologists doing the survey said they had only seen around 2 legal FC rams while doing the surveys this past summer. He mentioned that they had radio collared a number of rams to try figuring out exactly what was happening to the sheep population. Obviously ice/winters is a sheep's worse enemy but their survey came up with a few other interesting scenerios. They found a group of 9 rams dead from a snow slide and quite a few lambs likely killed by golden eagles. What can be done about golden eagles if they severely impact lamb recruitment? Unfortunately several collared sheep were found dead that mysteriously had lung worm pneumonia. Where the heck did that come from and what can be done to prevent it's spread? More sheep mean more tags available...so what should be done? When sheep, moose, or what ever species population are healthy there are more tags and fewer hunters quarreling over tags. I guess a lot of us need to kick back and figure out strategies for improving habitat and critter health? Yes Buzz, I have my tissue available if you need some!

 

[BuzzH]

jims,

Is there any chance of you taking a remedial reading and comprehension course?

jims said, "I know for a fact you are wrong in regard to most nonres draw odds are 100% while Alaska res draw odds hover around 7%."

Bambistew never made any such claim about "most" nonresident draw odds, he was talking specifically about brown bears on Kodiak.

Which, he is 100% right about.

Maybe instead of arguing with people that know their stuff, try taking the wax out of your ears, get that comprehension course you need...and start taking some notes.