New dog journey...

[JLS]

Take the collar and put it on the lowest level. Grip the probes in your palm and hit the button. Increase in intensity so YOU know how hot it is. Then, put it on Hank and do the same thing. Look for a reaction like a subtle twitch. Any more than a slight help, very slight, is too much unless you really need to bring the thunder for something like chasing deer.

Let him wear it around the house, eating, etc. use it to reinforce commands he knows. For instance, tell him to sit and at the same time hit the nick button. If he doesn't obey right away, tell him again and give him another subtle shock. Third command gets the continuous stimulus for a very brief time. Just remember to never use it in a punitive manner and give time for him to respond prior to a shock in the field.

 

[HuntCA]

Hey 1_Pointer, anyway you can update those old photos to a working site? I just came across your thread and I'd love to see them. Oh, and are you part of the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association? Great resource apparently.

 

[1_pointer]

Addicting: I got the collar from Lion Country Supply. It's their in house brand. It should have the range I'm looking for and I can set it up to also pair with the launcher I got from them. Maybe not the "best" gear, but the collar and launcher (which has worked great) are at good prices!
http://www.lcsupply.com/LCS-Bird-Dog-Trainer-800/productinfo/BDT/

JLS: That's the same process the manual lists for finding the appropriate correction level. Except for the part where you use it on yourself. Which I find "fair" and will do. One good thing about the collar, is it's very similar to the collar he wears everyday that keeps him inside the invisible fence. That's worked well enough that now he won't even chase a bumper or a rabbit over the line! I'm hoping his familiarity with that will make for a quick acclimation. Thanks for the suggestions on what how to work with him to understand what it means. He has a few commands down pretty well and I'll start with those to help him understand what the collar is for. Do you find the tone only function useful?

HuntCA: Yes, I am a member of NAVHDA and participate in a local chapter as well with training days and tests. I do have all those pictures on a working site, but I'm not sure if I can go back an edit posts that old, nor do I remember exactly which ones they are. I hate that Photobucket pulled the rug out from under me as I was using this post as sorta of a journal of Hank. So, unfortunately I will probably not get those pics updated. If you just want to see some Hank pics let me know. I am unabashed in my willingness to post pics of him.
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

 

[ewludwig]

Google e collar conditioning and you will get the info you need on the collar intro. Done wrong and you can ruin a dog. That said, based on my experience I agree with JLS. Once you get him conditioned you will likely find a vibrate or tone is all you need to get him refocused and listening to commands. You could also research using the tone or vibrate as recall options if he gets out too far and can't hear voice/whistle commands.

 

[JLS]

Yes, I used the tone in lieu of a whistle.

 

[Hunting Wife]

We used the method JLS described at the beginning and it worked well. Started at the level where she would give a twitch but not yelp. That said, her tolerance varies depending on the situation!

We did train her to the pager too. Ours vibrates. A long buzz is recall, a short buzz means look for hand directions. Extremely useful late season when chasing highly pressured roosters, as it keeps the noise to a minimum.

 

[1_pointer]

Thanks for all the suggestions!! I definitely plan to start slow. Very glad to hear that folks use the tone for recall instead of a whistle or yelling.

PS- Does it work as well on kids or spouses in getting them trained?

 

[1_pointer]

The collar intro went well. Level two gets a bit of a head twitch and shake. I used it a bit sparringly but he was starting to get it. I used the tone only function every time I called him back to me. I think he will start to get that with a bit more work. Also glad I picked the model I did as the collar remote works with my launcher as well. Battery was shot on the launcher remote so I just paired the collar remote to it and was able to get in some bird work.

Now I have a question. This time last year I was having a hard time getting Hank to point. He had caught birds on the ground. We got that licked using the homing pigeons and launcher. However he's not going on point until he is right on top of the bird. Like within a foot! After a 4 day trip after roosters to NoDak last year he was pointing much farther out. I'm thinking hes gaming it. The only thing I can think of is to launch the birds before he gets too close when off the check cord. When on the check cord I can get him to hold point further away but once off he goes to getting right on top of them. Any and all advice appreciated.

Another question for those of you running pointing breeds. How important do you find being steady to flush? I know steady is important for tests, but not sure if it matters that much for hunting. I'm More interested in hunting than tests We've been working on that a in the yard with bumpers and a tiny amount with live birds. With the bumpers I'm making him wait to hear fetch before retrieving it. With the birds I just keep him still with the check cord until the bird is gone. Again, any and all advice appreciated.

 

[Addicting]

I'm interested in that too, I've been having a hard time getting birds local. I've got a dozen chuckar comming in a couple weeks but he hasn't had much work on point since early May.

 

[JLS]

Tyler,

I personally think the remedy to the pointing issue is get him on wild birds. He'll never catch them. I really fell its more important to let the dog learn this through experience rather than using artificial controls to keep him honest on point. Just my opinion and I'm certainly no expert.

As to steady to flush, I don't do that but I certainly see the benefits of it. There are also disadvantages to it, and ultimately I think you have to decide what's best for your hunting style.

 

[1_pointer]

Tyler,

I personally think the remedy to the pointing issue is get him on wild birds. He'll never catch them. I really fell its more important to let the dog learn this through experience rather than using artificial controls to keep him honest on point. Just my opinion and I'm certainly no expert.

As to steady to flush, I don't do that but I certainly see the benefits of it. There are also disadvantages to it, and ultimately I think you have to decide what's best for your hunting style.

Those late season pheasants sure gave him a crash course! First time out on the pigeons after that trip he would lock up 20yards or so away! LOL. Now to find some wild birds. Really wish my wife was more amenable to a change of address...

Thanks for the insight on the steady to flush. I know for the tests/games it's needed, but the most experienced dog I've been around (50+ roosters & 75+ chukar per year for her now 10yrs) is not steady. Doesn't seem to hurt the ability to bring birds to the bag. I'm thinking I will focus that time/energy on working on other things instead of steady.

Thanks everyone for all the info and help!

 

[onpoint]

1_pointer,
I wouldn't get too concerned about steadiness. In real world hunting situations, the dogs and the birds figure it out........

 

[1_pointer]

Haha! That's about the distance that Hank points the pigeons. Not kidding.

 

[1_pointer]

This past weekend, I joined a guy from the local conservation club in Michigan's UP for Hank and I's first attempt at ruffed grouse. The country and birds are much different than the planted birds we hunt at home or the CRP/shelterbelts we hunted pheasants in North Dakota last year. This is the cover we were seeking out and where we were finding birds.
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Wary birds and cover like that means that you can get a lot of birds ups and not a lot of shot opportunities and many times not even a glimpse of the flush, just the sound. The guy I went with has two Braque Fracais and we usually ran Hank with the female. She's older and has a pretty good grasp of how to hunt this cover and these birds. This was good for me as I could see how she was reacting and then could guage how Hank would react when covering the same ground. He would usually get birdy where she did and you could tell he was picking up something in the same places, which was good news for me. The first day, Hank got his first point in...of a dead bird! lol Guy shot and we didn't see the bird go down, we worked forward and all of the sudden Hank turned inside out and POINT! The bird was dead, but it was a treat to see that light bulb come on. Later that same day, after bumping a few prematurely, he finally struck a point on a woodcock. They were out of season, but it was fun to see him pick up on another species.

The final morning, we hunted Hank by himself to see how he'd do. When alone, he didn't range out quite as far, but he did hunt and work the cover well. In about an hour and half he put up three grouse, two that he pointed; the last was which was a blast to watch. These ruffeds run more than I had ever seen the ones in UT and ID do. Hank started getting birdy and lined out a bit on a track. POINT! I moved in and he moved up. Nothing. We kept working it and about 20yards later he pointed again! Once more of that same routine and he finally got the bird pinned. He locked up as well as he does (he's far from a stylish point) and the bird got up. I had a bit of shot opportunity, but didn't connect. Regardless it was great to see him doing it seemingly well and on his own.

In summary, we didn't bag a lot of birds, but we moved quite a bit birds. The weather was unseasonably hot which resulted in many more mosquito's than anticipated. Hank does not like to hunt too long at 80º. It was a new experience for both of us and a good time. I'd like to get back there or to similar country and try it later in the year with the leaves off and possibly some snow on the ground. Some things we need to work on; steadiness to point. He broke point a bit more than he should. Once to the point of flushing then proceeding to catch a fat, lazy woodcock. He's still crowding birds a bit too much, but I'm not sure how I can help him figure that out. I think wild birds, if given enough exposure to them, will teach him that. And lastly, some basic obedience. His recall was great! Even coming to the tone of the ecollar. Heel was good enough to not get him in trouble in the field. Being better at heel and stay would have gotten him into less trouble at the cabin. I was pretty darn tickled how he did. He's far from finished or even a good hunting dog, but he's getting better, he's mine, and we had fun!

Hank's 1st and 2nd ruffed grouse!
DSCN2148 by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr
DSCN2156 by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Other shots from the trip
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Upon seeing this one, my boys were like "Hank's wrestling! He's putting in the half-Nelson!"...
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

 

[the_alpha_dog58]

Agreed you definitely want to get the obedience and house training done first before getting too involved in gun dog training. I didn't ever get into upland dogs too much but for retrievers there are a lot of good trainers out there. That can help make a great gun dog, or even give plenty of tips for training. I've found a lot of trainers off of my local hunt clubs. I also found a good read on a glimpse into what it takes to have a gun dog. It scratches the surface a little on expectations and what to look for in a dog. https://thewaterfowlhunter.com/waterfowl-hunting-dogs/

 

[1_pointer]

I haven't updated this much lately as I haven't done much except some work in the yard with bumpers and obedience stuff. My plan for Veteran's Day weekend was to head to Iowa to meet a guy for some pheasant hunting. The Monday before the guy contacted me and let me know that he'd had a death in the family and would be out of town. I very much understood and hold absolutely no ill will. However, this put me into a bit of a quandry. While I had posted in a previous thread on here about Iowa pheasant hunting, I didn't really know where to go. For the price of the trip to Iowa, I could buy a whole bunch of birds to release myself or to visit preserves here at home. Between JLS and my wife, they convinced me that going to Iowa was the better choice, so Thursday after work Hank and I headed out.

I had a general idea where the guy I was going to with hunted, so I booked a room and did some internet recon. My co-worker is from the part of Iowa that I'd be staying in and his family have a farm there so that help me center in where I would base out of. Long story short I spent 2.5 days bouncing from one public land spot to another as well as some time on the co-workers family farm. Hank and I moved quite a bit of birds over that time with a very high hen:rooster ratio. To the order of 10:1. Even though they couldn't be shot, the hens gave Hank some very valuable lessons!

The first day out, Hank was full of piss and vinegar, charging through cover working far and wide. By the third day he was beat up! Scritches and scratches everywhere, footsore, and tired. Until he got a whiff of bird or flushed one then it was back to game on! The last bird of the trip was "The One". We had moved 9 hens on this piece of ground, with him having pointed a good number of them, two of which he pinned between me and him before the flush! We were working our way back to the truck when we jumped a deer. The deer bounded up and off the property. A minute or two later, Hank was quartering in front of me when he started getting birdy and lined out a bit on a track. He'd lose it for a second, come back to find it, and kept moving on. I was thinking that he was probably trailing the deer and attempted to recall him with his collar's tone. No response. As he neared the edge of the cover I got ready to give him a shock when he locked up on point! By this time he was about 75yds away and he took me a bit to get over there as the grass was tall/thick enough and laid over enough that one had to sort of goose step through it. I get there and he's still locked up on a piece of cover about the size of a dinner table. I move in front of him and he holds! One more step and a roosters launches out cackling and flying for all it's worth. One shot and the bird's down, Hank grabs it and brings it to hand. It was fun to see him find, track, point, and retrieve the bird! If they could all just work out that smoothly...

When Hank was younger I used to tease that he was a hunting breed and not a hunting dog until I had shot some wild birds over him. More recently, I teased that he wasn't a versatile breed as he'd only done upland birds. Well, I can't do that anymore. I retrieved his first duck that I was able to shoot after jumping it off a creek and also jumped then retrieved a cottontail I shot!
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

DSCN2282 by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

DSCN2300 by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr

Fun trip and Hank and I both learned a lot! Now, to figure out how to get back to Iowa again this season...

 

[JLDemo]

Great pictures, can't beat hunting with a dog. I've been going solo this year and it's just not the same, I've been lobbying the idea of a hunting dog to my wife and it's warming up to her as long as she gets to name it. ha! No breed decided on as of yet. Headed to South Dakota & Kansas soon to bird hunt a few weekends, your pictures re-light the anxiety of waiting for time to pass by!

 

[kansasdad]

Way to go Pointer and Hank. Time in the field with live wild birds will really accelerate the learning.

 

[JLS]

It sure is fun to read up on Hanks progress. That last bird is worth it’s weight in gold in terms of learning and experience. Heck, even pointing and holding hens is great for dogs. Wild birds really push new pups to their limits and help them learn way beyond what pen released birds ever will.

Well done.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

That's the post I was waiting for. It's all coming around, well done!