More lawsuits

[Lostagain]

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Feb/02252003/utah/32659.asp

About the praire dog. Montanas regs on them still.
http://fwp.state.mt.us/news/show.aspx?id=2301

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-25-2003 14:49: Message edited by: Lostagain ]</font>

 

[1_pointer]

Hmmm...if they get listed that could change many a grazing management plan. Some I bet would call for even more grazing as it would keep the cover shorter (their preference). The ranch I work on has some small colonies, but I think they're the black footed ones. They sure keep the badger population there healthy.

 

[mtmiller]

No black-tail prairie dogs in Utah, but there are black-footed ferrets.

There are white-tailed, gunnisons, and Utah prairie dogs in the state.

Save the prairie dog, overgraze.

 

[1_pointer]

THanks for clearing that up!

 

[mtmiller]

I was just having a little fun. I worked with ferrets and pdogs for about 6 years, so I thought I would pipe in a little worthless information.

Looking forward to meeting you in Canada.

 

[danr55]

It amazes me how an animal whose population is estimated at between 5 and 7 million, can be considered as endangered.

 

[BuzzH]

Really? Have you ever taken a look at how small the populations are now compared to historic populations? If you care to research it a little, I dont think you'd make a comment like that.

 

[danr55]

Buzz, Have you noticed how small the habitat is compared to what it used to be? Measure population per area and then let's talk...

If you decide to do that, consider periodic swings in population resulting from things like plague and prairrie fever. The numbers of coyotes wandering around without threat to their numbers.

One of the things that the greenies need to realize is that the more people there are on the planet, the less room there is for nature. It's very difficult to graze wildlife in a parking lot....

 

[Washington Hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>the more people there are on the planet, the less room there is for nature. It's very difficult to graze wildlife in a parking lot....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dan, you make very good points once in a while, and this is one of them. I think the greenies do realize this. That's why many organizations like the RMEF and The Nature Conservancy are spending a lot of money on conservation easements and outright purchase of land to protect critical wildlife habitat. Do you contribute money to any of these groups?

 

[Washington Hunter]

One more thing...guys need to learn how to use condoms, and all unmarried women should be on birth control pills. The government should stop rewarding single mothers for popping out kids. And, the government also needs to control all the illegal immigrants coming into this country. Then maybe we could save enough land to support wildlife.

 

[danr55]

WH, My contributions to the Arizona Elk Society were just over $4700.00 last year. I have switched allegience from the RMEF because of the outrageous salaries the RMEF pays thier administrators.

As to the birth control issues, you have no business telling other people how to live thier lives. We fought a couple of wars about that if you recall.

My Granddad, who was a pretty smart guy inspite of everything he did that was dumb, used to have a saying. "Never trust anyone that isn't a communist at 17, a democrat at 24 and a republican at 40". I believe that as we mature our ideas become a little more conservative. Now that's not true in all cases, but experience tends to teach those who are capable of learning. Just something to think about...

 

[Washington Hunter]

Dan good job on helping out the Arizona Elk Society with all that money. As far as the birth control thing, yes I think I do have a right to think that unmarried women should not be getting pregnant and having kids just so they can live off welfare and child support payments from the father. And I also think I have the right to feel that our government isn't doing enough to keep illegals out of this country.

 

[1_pointer]

I agree with WH on this one. If you have kids you should support them. I am against gov. programs that give money to people for having children and even more against tax write offs for having children. Why should we be rewarded for having children? Granted its a personal decision to have them, but then again it is a personal obligation to be able to afford them to. I know that sounds very cold hearted because the children are the one getting the short end of the stick. But, then again, maybe we wouldn't be having these problems if that had happened earlier.

 

[danr55]

I have no problem with the requirement to support whatever children you parent. My bitch is telling people that they have to be on birth control or that they can't be on birth contol. We, as individuals, have no right imposing our will on others unles and until the actions of others impinge on our personal freedoms.

I hope you can see the difference between supporting kids and using or not using birth control... It boils down to acting in a manner in line with your individual conscience, but being tasked with taking responsibility for what you do. That's the key. Being free but taking responsibility for that freedom. To me the difference is huge. Others may find the line rather thin.

 

[Elkhunter]

I agree with Dan. A fault of the system is no excuse for infringing on a person's rights. If they wish to have sex and babies then they should also take the responsibility of taking care of them. But we should not make the decision that they have to use birth control.

 

[1_pointer]

I agree with that.

 

[MarlandS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Washington Hunter:
Dan good job on helping out the Arizona Elk Society with all that money. As far as the birth control thing, yes I think I do have a right to think that unmarried women should not be getting pregnant and having kids just so they can live off welfare and >>>>>>>>>>>child support payments from the father<<<<<<<< And I also think I have the right to feel that our government isn't doing enough to keep illegals out of this country.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with the essence of this except for the >>>>> <<<<<<< part. It is the total responsibility of the father to support the children and if that means the mother too, oh well. you play , you pay if more guys understood that little 4 word phrase then there would be little need for welfare.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-01-2003 12:52: Message edited by: MarlandS ]</font>

 

[Washington Hunter]

Well Marland (and others) the problem is that some women get pregnant with guys who they have no intention of staying with. They just want his money. She wants to have a baby and wants a guy to support her and the child, but she has no interest in any relationship with the father. That is what is wrong. The problem with many women nowdays is they don't think it's necessary for a child to have a father in its life, just as long as they can get money out of him for 18 years (or more) that is all she wants. What ever happened to getting married first and planning for a baby? And Elkhunter, I never said anybody should be forced to use birth control...although I don't think it would be a bad idea for single mothers who continue having babies and using tax payer's money to support them.

 

[MarlandS]

WH, so, it is entirely the woman's fault that she got knocked up? She raped the guy and got pregnant from it?

Birth control is just as much a man's responsibility as it is a woman's. If a guy beds down with a woman not knowing whether or not she's taking birth control or protecting himself from disease in these days of STD's that will kill you then he's plain ignorant.

It doesn't matter if she wants a relationship with the father or not, he's taking the risk if he has sex before marriage. If he wants a relationship with the kid, he can get that through legal channels.

You make it sound like they are making a killing off the guy.

 

[Washington Hunter]

It does happen Marland, believe it or not. There are women that know how to use the legal system to their advantage. Don't you know the legal system is totally biased against men? Many women know how to take advantage of that. They are lazy and have learned that the government will take care of them.