Market Hunting compared to Commercial Fisheries

[James Riley]

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think most hunters cotton to the idea of commercial, private-for-profit market hunting of wild game. In fact, I'm not sure it even exists in the U.S. anymore. If that's the case, wouldn't the same sentiments apply to the commercial, private-for-profit fishing of wild fish? If not, why not? I haven't poured a whole lot thought into this but I'd be interested in hearing what you all think. Populations stocks and entrenched industries might have been arguments made by the market hunters of old.

It comes to mind now and then when I hear about Japanese whaling, and U.S. coastal fisheries caps, lobster limits, population crashes, etc. It also came to mind when reading about the honest folks waiting outside shed hunting grounds while others had already pilfered the area. Supply-demand, and diminishing resources. Aren't sport fishermen a little pissed? No?

 

[RobG]

I suppose they saw those fisheries as inexhaustible at the time. In some things like the east coast striper fishery and the southern redfish industry they have started managing more for the public.

I wouldn't mind making the sale of game animal parts, especially antlers, illegal. That business has encouraged a lot of illegal activity especially trespassing.

 

[James Riley]

I suppose they saw those fisheries as inexhaustible at the time. In some things like the east coast striper fishery and the southern redfish industry they have started managing more for the public.

I wouldn't mind making the sale of game animal parts, especially antlers, illegal. That business has encouraged a lot of illegal activity especially trespassing.

I agree. I think the carrier pigeon, bison, elk and other market hunters used to think the supply was inexhaustible. I think we are closing in on the fisheries.

 

[Sawtooth]

With the drought the last few years along the Pacific Coast and the poor ocean conditions, many of the Pacific salmon runs are being fought over by the Commercial, Native, and Recreational fisheries. Washington state may not have a salmon season in many areas of the state because of this years projected low fish counts. Oregon, Washington, California, and Idaho fish and game departments have been trying to keep these three groups happy for years. Everyone wants their piece of the pie.

 

[James Riley]

With the drought the last few years along the Pacific Coast and the poor ocean conditions, many of the Pacific salmon runs are being fought over by the Commercial, Native, and Recreational fisheries. Washington state may not have a salmon season in many areas of the state because of this years projected low fish counts. Oregon, Washington, California, and Idaho fish and game departments have been trying to keep these three groups happy for years. Everyone wants their piece of the pie.

Wasn't there a marine mammal of some kind that was also getting blamed for eating all the fish? I remember when I was up in Alaska (Juneau) there were commercial fishermen bragging in a bar (Red Dog Saloon) about shooting bald eagles for the same reason. I got a nice little scar outa that one.

 

[James Riley]

All fisheries are different. Conflict between user groups usually is much worse where supply is limited. No fishery should be fished in a way that endangers the resource.

I commercial fish in Bristol Bay Ak and have off and on since the late 1980s. Bristol Bay runs 20 to 35 million sockeye salmon in about a month each year. When conflict arises it is usually over Chinook/ kings or Coho/ silvers, which are much smaller runs. The conflict is pretty much the sport fish guides vs commercial gill netters. Fighting over money.

No commercial fisherman in their right mind wants to see the fishery depleted. Of course there are a few in every crowd who would kill the last buffalo for a buck.

Fish and game manages the fishery by monitoring the catch and escapement 24-7 during the run. Commercial fishing does not take place until minimum escapement goals are reached. Managed in this way the fishery will last forever unless habitat is damaged or lost.

Gill net size restrictions are used to target certain species , or allow them to escape.

The fishery has to be managed just like game populations to hopefully eliminate huge boom and bust population swings.

That also reminds me of the foreign salmon gill net fishery outside our waters. I remember "our" user groups complaining about that killing our returning fish. Is there an international body that caps that, or is it open season?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Wasn't there a marine mammal of some kind that was also getting blamed for eating all the fish?

It would be a little naïve to think that predation under completely artificial environments isn't having some affect on fisheries. I don't think it's natural to have fish stack up at a fish ladder where they are sitting ducks for sea lions. Nor have changes been all that good for the fish in terms of escapement from cormorants and other predatory birds. It's not the entire problem, but it's certainly a piece of the puzzle. Survival of smolts out of Puget Sound is absolutely dismal.

 

[BuzzH]

The difference between sport fishing is huge in a couple ways:

1. In sport fishing, no fish need to die for the economic impact it has or the industry to continue. Commercial fishing, unless fish die, the economics of it don't exist...period.

2. It absolutely pisses me off to no end that when the resource is short, the FIRST cuts to keeping fish are imposed on sport fishermen. I found out this year that halibut limits on Kodiak are now limited to 2, one of any size and one cant be over a certain size. Last time I went the limit was 2 any size. Its just ridiculous to restrict sport fishing and then allow literally tons of fish be caught commercially. In fairness, an across the board decrease would be nice.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

In the case of migrating salmon, all are going to die. I can see your point on other fish, but I also believe sport fishermen need to accept that there is mortality in catch and release fishing.

Sure they are all going to die, but where and when they do it is pretty important.

 

[BuzzH]

In the case of migrating salmon, all are going to die. I can see your point on other fish, but I also believe sport fishermen need to accept that there is mortality in catch and release fishing.

Totally agree, but when was the last time you saw the commercial fishing industry build, maintain, or financially support a salmon hatchery?

 

[James Riley]

Isn't there one species of salmonid/salmonidae that does not die, but comes in and goes out several times in a life span? Could be wrong, but I thought I remember hearing that.

Yeah, found it, Steelhead.

 

[BuzzH]

Atlantic salmon as well...

 

[James Riley]

I wouldn't mind making the sale of game animal parts, especially antlers, illegal. That business has encouraged a lot of illegal activity especially trespassing.

I agree with that. But I can also see some hick ups. Could you sell the old moose head that your ex wife's father left in the garage? If public wildlife antlers went off the market, the private elk farm folks might like that, but would it encourage them, causing more farming of elk?

The upside, of course, is guys like me who like antlers in their own right, without any thought to monetary value, might have less competition in the field. Parents with kids waiting legally and patiently outside the Wildlife Refuge for the rush on opening day might actually find something.

Well, we've gone from a discussion about the commercial exploitation of wildlife to wild fish. We could extend it to wild trees and plants. That would definitely get some hackles up.